Before I give you my numbers, I wanted to add something from our two experts:
Andrew: “exercise scientists as well as practitioners in the field have been using one rep maxes on big lifts to determine overall strength for years and my understanding is that this measure is pretty reliable and accurate. i’m sure there are studies to back this up although I’m afraid I can’t point you to a specific one. do you have a better way to test overall strength?”
Charlotte’s Note: I think I understand where we are missing each other now. The one-rep max does make sense as an objective way of comparing one’s strength to someone else’s, like in a competitive setting. For me, I measure only against myself (well, and sometimes Gym Buddy Allison but she always beats me…). I measure increased strength by what I can do – like I know I’ve gotten stronger when I can climb a 5.10 rock wall instead of a 5.9 Or if I can do my favorite hike in a shorter amount of time than before.
Lucas: “Many people seem to think that lifting weights is lifting weights is lifting weights. That’s not the case. []… each protocol can be sorted into 1 of 2 general categories: Strength Training and Bodybuilding.”
“To understand these categories, we must understand the goals of each. In Strength Training, the goal is to get stronger. To put it more precisely, the goal is to increase the amount of weight that you can lift for a single repetition. This is achieved by increasing the power production capacity of muscle fibers and by improving the ability of the nervous system to recruit those fibers.In Bodybuilding, the goal is to increase the visible amount of muscle on your body. This is achieved via hypertrophy (the process by which the body creates new muscle cells and/or increases the size of existing ones) and by reducing body fat.There is some overlap in these two goals. In the process of building strength, you will begin to appear more muscular. In the process of building muscle, you will start to get stronger. But the two are not the same.”
Charlotte’s Note: I was totally confusing the two in my last post. And Lucas is exactly right (and I think this is what Andrew was trying to tell me as well). Thanks for clearing that up for me, guys!! PS> I’ve added Lucas’ blog to my blogroll – definitely check it out, he’s a smart cookie!
My Numbers
Gee, this feels like revealing my body stats on a mating & dating site!! *blush* (I’m a 42-19-36, in case you are wondering… oh, wait, that’s Barbie. Nevermind.) Here are mine & Allison’s one-rep max numbers and our categories according to Rippetoe (keep in mind that we are in different weight/height categories so Allison had to lift more weight to achieve her level):
Deadlift:
Charlotte – 155lbs (Intermediate)
Allison – 185lbs (Intermediate)
Press:
Charlotte – 70lbs (exactly halfway between intermediate & advanced)
Allison – 72lbs (intermediate)
Bench Press:
Charlotte – 90lbs (intermediate)
Allison – 105lbs (intermediate)
Squat*:
Charlotte & Allison – 225lbs (Elite is only 199)
*I’m confused on this one. It seems wrong to me that we’d be past elite on this one exercise. Maybe we were doing it wrong. We did have a personal trainer from our gym checking our form & he said we were fine. Maybe we are crazy strong in the legs. Or maybe we did something wrong. (And no we weren’t using a machine) Hmmph.
Power Clean*:
Charlotte – 65lbs (novice), 95lbs (between intermediate and advanced)
Allison – 85lbs (novice), 115lbs (between intermediate and advanced)
*This one we did just dismally on. The first weight listed is what we did freestanding, with a weighted bar. We were so bummed that we didn’t even really make novice that we moved to the Smith machine and tried again. Those are the second numbers. Although I do realize using the Smith machine was cheating as, while you are still lifting the weight, the machine stabilizes the bar for you, thus making it easier.
Conclusions
I am not a novice!! (except in the power clean). I am pretty consistently “intermediate”, which I’m very happy with. While this is just one way to measure strength, I have to say this was a LOT of fun. Plus we had a lot of spectators at our gym: giving us tips, encouraging us, checking our form and it just generally turned into a big party – fun for everyone! Thanks for the idea, Andrew!
Everyone should try this – although I will add: you definitely need a spotter. No excuses!! Don’t try and do this one on your own. Enjoy!
PS> All of this really makes me miss Becky. GIRL – if you are reading this, you must try this and post your numbers. Just so I can say I know an elite power lifter:)
hmmm, the crazy squat number makes me question the other numbers.
So. 225 pounds is a 7 foot olympic bar weighing 45 pounds plus 4 plates weighing 45 pounds each. Is this what you used?
Are you sure the bar weighed 45 and the plates weighed 45 each? You used Olympic and not standard plates? You went knees well below hips into a full-depth squat? On the press, you went from chest to overhead, totally locked out? Same on bench?
You weight around 123, is that right?
A video of any or all of these would clear this discrepancy up immediately.
By the way, awesome job on all those lifts.
Andrew – egads, don’t question all our numbers!! To answer your questions: the bar is def. olympic weight (45lbs) – we made sure to ask several people, incl. the weight floor manager before we started. We went off the numbers written on the plates (lbs not kg). And yes, I had two 45-lb plates on each side of the olympic bar. I went as low as the exrx guy (which is to say, not ATG but just below parallel). Yes, totally locked out on the press, started with elbows down, bar on chest. The bench though… we didn’t “bump” off the chest but went down to within an inch of it – does that count?
As for a video – that would have been nice. One guy who was watching us even said that “You guys better get pictures or no one is going to believe you!”
Like I said before, I’m suspicious of our squat weight too. Maybe we didn’t go as low as it felt like we were going and nobody called us on it?
The Squats do seem a bit fishy. It’s definitely possible that the trainers at your gym have a generous definition of parallel. You should go low enough that your hip joint is completely below the top of your knee and the TOP of your thigh is parallel to the floor or slightly below. If the bottom of your thigh is parallel to the floor, you’re still a couple of inches above parallel.
Still, mad props to you for ALL of those lifts. Even if the Squats weren’t 100% legit, putting 225 pounds on your back and going down and up with it at a bodyweight of 123 is pretty impressive.
Charlotte you are totally my hero!! I’m doing great to squat my own body weight!! I have tried doing squats with my 4 yr old in my arms! He thinks it’s a riot – now that is some serious functional training!
Andrew and Lucas,
I was wondering if you two have tried out the monkey bar workout yourselves yet?
I am the quiet partner to Charlotte and Allison and I have been doing it with them for the past two weeks, except on Saturdays as they kill themselves it Jenny’s turbokick class, I am out on the weight floor doing my upper and lower body workouts.
I found that these past two Saturdays after doing a week of the monkey bar workout has left me a bit of a weakling. I have had to drop my usual poundage and go for a lighter weight and I had to struggle with finishing my reps.
I love to see you guys take the challenge to do the workout for one week and then do your usual weights on saturday and let me know how your muscles and strength were affected.
Candice
Oh, yea, I forgot to mention that
“YOU GIRLS TOTALLY ROCK!!!”
I would have loved to be there with you two, but you know, getting a sinus infection in the dead of winter with negative degree weather outside just made more sense than to attempt to lift my max weight. I miss you guys and will see you again on Monday
(doctors orders)
Candice
Candace,
I have not tried the Monkey Bar workouts yet, but have been doing that type of training for years. Specifically I have been doing CrossFit for about two years. Currently I am doing the full workout of the day, unscaled, as it appears on the crossfit.com site. I don’t mean this to sound elitist, but the CrossFit workouts are MUCH, MUCH harder — as in several degrees of magnitude harder — than the Monkey bar workouts. CrossFit workouts test the upper limits of the world’s best athletes. Few programs can do this. This is not to degrade what’s going on in the monkey bar gym, because clearly they have got some good ideas there. But like I say, the difference between these kinds of training is night and day in terms of intensity. the fittest crossfit athletes would probably smoke the fittest monkey bar gym athletes. again, I’m not trying to kick up flame wars about this topic, but it probably true. for example if you look at one of the longer workouts:
For time:
50 Box jump, 24 inch box
50 Jumping pull-ups
50 Kettlebell swings, 1 pood
Walking Lunge, 50 steps
50 Knees to elbows
50 Push press, 45 pounds
50 Back extensions
50 Wall ball shots, 20 pound ball
50 Burpees
50 Double unders
you’ve got crossfit athletes putting up like 25 minute times and less, which is just insane power production. and you can find the same thing if you look at several day’s worth: look up the elite times for 21-15-9 of 95# thruster/pullups (Fran), and you have guys putting up sub 3 minutes times, which is just unreal.
So candice, my challenge to you and to others would be to go check out crossfit and try a couple workouts and see what you think. i think both programs have a lot to offer, it just depends on what you are looking for. i’m sure someone from the monkey bar gym would want to comment on this as well, and I’d be very interested to see what they think of Crossfit.
–andrew
Great numbers. Gives me some motivation!
My question is what the heck gym do you guys go to that is so communal? I would never have anyone talk to me let alone give me tips on lifts in most of my gyms. The one that was tiny and I knew most of the guys (a gym in my old building at work), they would talk to me, but would generally only tease me about my “weightlifting.” Anyway, I’d love to go to a gym like yours!
Andrew,
I am glad that you responded with great excitement for your workout(seriously). You have to really enjoy what you are doing to get the results that you want and I think I would be scared to go to your gym if all the guys were so buff, since our group is in the minority with the grey hairs.
I don’t doubt that after we have experimented with the monkey gym workout that Charlotte, our leader of trying new things, will want to try the crossfit workout (as long as it is free or very cheap cause we are frugal mothers!)
I am not as strong or as young as Charlotte and Allison, but I do try to keep up.
I just love to workout cause I used to weigh over 200 lbs and lost most of it with cardio, but when I put in weightlifting I finally had gotten rid of the last 20 lbs and began to see definition.
I am working on getting it back, due to a car accident last year that has set me back. But I have two great partners that keep me on track. Since starting the monkey bar workout I have lost 5 lbs in to weeks (including being on the you know girl thing) so we will see how I will fair for this month.
And if we try the crossfit I will let you know the difference on the results.
Candice
Candice,
Crossfit is free and a lot of fun so you ladies should get a kick out of it. You can also look to see if there is an affiliate in your area. Best of luck!
Andrew – I’m totally willing to try Crossfit! You know I love something new. After I finish the current Monkey Bar Experiment (30 days – I’m only half way done) then we’ll give crossfit a go.
AT22 – We work out at the YMCA and it definitely is a community! The good part is that everyone is so supportive and friendly, I swear everyone knows my name:) The bad part is everyone is all up in everyone’s business – that place is a gossip hive! Anyhow, I love it there. The support has definitely been key in keeping me going to the gym.
Lucas & Gretchen – thanks for the kudos guys!! You both totally made me grin.
Candice,
I’m intrigued by your challenge, but I’m a weightlifting junkie recovering from an involuntary 2-week layoff. I need my fix!
That being said, incorporating a few Monkey Bar workouts as conditioning on my “off” days looks like fun. Who wouldn’t want to do “Power Roller Crawls?!”
So, as a modified form of your challenge, I think I’ll do Monkey Bar stuff instead of my normal conditioning work 2x a week on my off days for the next month or so and see what happens.
Lucas,
I know about the weeks off, although mine have been coming every month this winter. I swear if someone else gets sick again in my house they will be going to work with dad.
I am glad to hear you are up for trying some new things. I just went back today and we did walking hand stands against the wall, supposed to be for 60 yards! Charlotte, the rocking chic that she is, was the only one able to do it the advanced way. I had Allison and Charlotte’s hubby laughing, saying I looked like a monkey trying to do it! (I ended up just holding a handstand against the wall and my arms are already getting sore!)
Just see if you can find some friends, maybe your spotting buddies to help, since laughter is definately part of the workout!
I am a workout junkie too and it was hard for me to agree to do this, but I am glad that I did and I can always do my weights again!
Candice