I really do have the smartest, wittiest, most erudite (but not pretentious), caring AND helpful readers/commenters. And sadly, sometimes some of what you guys say gets lost in the shuffle. I do read and enjoy every single comment you guys make (and don’t worry about correcting me – I’m all about the learning! So call me out if I need it!) You all deserve more, I think. So today I’m posting some questions/ideas posed by you that I thought warranted more discussion.
(The pics? Have nothing to do with anything except that they are both simultaneously mesmerizing and cringe-worthy. Love it.)
In response to the Primal Blueprint, Dislyxec (typing that gives me pain) writes:
Also, in my probably-not-qualified-to-give-an-opinion opinion, don’t sweat it about fruits. It’s already awesome that you’re able to satisfy your sugar wants with fruit. I don’t mean to be sexist, but in the conventional thinking of gender roles of the primal hunter/gatherer society, the men hunt, and the women gather. If that is true, then it’s very likely that women consumed far more fruits/veggies than men.
Q: Is there a gender discrepancy in the Primal theory? Should men and women adopt this lifestyle differently?
On Update Polka, javachick writes:
I work out. I have no problem with that. Sticking to an eating plan is a bigger challenge for me. But I have found in the past that I get frustrated. I work so hard to stick to an eating plan, stay in my calorie range, and I don’t see any results…Makes it very hard to stay motivated.
Q: I can’t tell you how many times I have said this exact same thing (and heard it from so many of you!) What do you guys do to stay motivated through plateaus?
Writing on WALL-E: Obesity Propaganda for Kids, Judy says:
Personally, I’m MUCH more bothered by the fact that in so much mass media today the kids all seem so disrespectful of their parents and the humor comes, so much of the time, from insult jokes directed at loved ones.
Q: Since when did snark become the soul of wit?
Dr. J sums up You Didn’t Really Eat Your Spinach, Did You? with one pithy phrase:
My rule for a while now has been “People look like what they do, not what they say they do, when it comes to health and fitness claims.”
Q: On one hand we have this from a doctor. On the other hand we have people who say they do their darndest to eat right and work out and are still overweight. What say you?
Also in regards to the Spinach post, Kathleen writes about vanity sizing in a way I’d never considered it before:
The average size for women in the US will ALWAYS be a 10. The reason being, a size 10 is the middle of a manufacturer’s size spread. For efficient fabric cutting, you need the same number of sizes off to either side of the median size (the default is 10). Long story. Anyway, this is why sizing evolves. As women get heavier, the dimensions that constitute the “average size” will increase to match their increasing girth. This explains why we’re not wearing clothes sized to match people who lived in the 1800’s.
Lately, the situation has become markedly worse resulting in so called “vanity sizing” because young people today are much heavier when we were their ages and since they buy twice as many clothes as we do, their financial pull has the weight (no pun intended) to alter the average size manufacturers cut.In sum, manufacturers are cutting to the mean of consumers buying clothes. It’s not due to vanity sizing that if your dimensions haven’t changed in 20 years, that you’re buying two sizes smaller than you did then. The issue is that the *average*, the mean today, is two sizes larger than we were 20 years ago. The solutions are to:
1. Get your kids on a diet
2. All of us older folks to buy a lot more clothes
3. Buy more expensive clothes. Wealthy people are thinner. If designer and bridge lines didn’t size to their core customer, they’d be out of business. I guarantee a RL purple label size 10, is two sizes smaller than a size 10 at the Gap.
She follows it up with a second explanatory comment:
As a pattern maker in the industry for 25 years, I’ve had time to think about it. Plus, I’m obsessed with the history of body sizing and anthropometry.
I’ve written a great deal about this. A book’s worth in all it’s ramifications. I need to aggregate them and put them in one place. At the close of this entry, you’ll find a list of most of them if you’re interested in pursuing the topic.
Q: Now that you have it from an actual pattern-maker’s mouth (so cool!) – Does this change at all how you feel about the garment industry? The skinny mirrors at Banana Republic?
Lastly, Azusmom leaves us with comment in regards to her underwear on Public Wedgie Picking:
When I ride my bike or go spinning, I wear padded liners from REI. Underwear with padding! How much better can it get?
Q: Who knew there was such an invention???
I expect your answers typed out in essay form and handed in to me no later than Monday;) Have a great weekend all! I will be camping with the hubby & kids so if I don’t answer your comment right away, it’s because I’m busy chasing my monkeys out of the fire pit.
Thanks to all of you! My life wouldn’t be half as interesting without you:)
i refuse to type this in essay form. you cannot make me.
i really enjoyed that. I sometimes skip over the comments other people leave, and i know im missing valuable insight. its great of you to spotlight it.
http://www.groundedfitness.com
You should make this a regular thing, I really enjoyed all that, great food for thought.
Plateaus? It’s not intentional but I generally get fed up, drop the strict diet and end up eating a bit more and working out a bit more. Because, let’s face it, that’s a more fun way to live! The result? Either I bust my plateau just by doing this, or I maintain my weight and come back to the diet refreshed having had a break – and THEN can bust through my plateau. It’s a good scheme, I would recommend it to people who tend to have their calories on the low side and work out a lot.
I loved Dr J’s comment!!! Must have missed that one. It does sound harsh, but I wholeheartedly believe it’s true. I know there are medical conditions that make weight loss difficult, but nothing makes it impossible (apart from a tricksy “snacking hand” – and I’m not sure you can get pills for that). Be honest with yourself and you will see results – that’s the bottom line.
TA x
can I do it in the form of a free style rap?
Miz., who loves you all the more because you used this word in a post:erudite.
I always check back multiple times just to see what people are saying in the comments!
Plateaus? I just give up and wind up maintaining. I have stress in too many areas of my life, and trying too hard to stick to a diet plan just piles on more stress. Easier to eat sensibly and maintain than to get overly stressed.
I had never thought of that aspect of vanity sizing! I always thought that the reason I’ve dropped 2 sizes since HS while staying the same physically is because the clothing industry wants my money. They think I’ll buy more as a 6 than a 10 (ha! I’ll still need some $$$!). As someone who tends to sew/knit her own clothes, that explanation makes a lot of sense; patterns are expanding their size ranges all the time to fit larger and larger (but not smaller) people.
Wow, so much great food for thought!
Re: vanity sizing–very educational! Although in my experience, the Fancy-Ass brands were faster, rather than slower, than the mainstream brands to change their sizing in a way that seems to make you seem smaller than you are. But I shop the sale racks, so who knows, perhaps my experience is unusual.
Great post! (I am a longtime lurker, but this is my first comment.)
The vanity sizing info is really interesting. It makes sense, and I feel a little less angry about the whole vanity sizing issue now.
I love love love reading the comments and come back often to read what other people have to say.
Since moving to Canada from Australia and being exposed to Canadian and US sizing, my brain gives up. Every store is completely different depending on where they’re based so I can’t go on sizing anymore. I used to try figure out what the equivalent Aus size was and get happy/sad but now I go with it.
Plateaus frustrate the heck out of me but I try remember to breathe and let go slightly. Usually it results in my body adjusting and then when I ramp up the exercise/clean eating again, it responds by moving.
I have to say that I agree with Dr J generally. Yes, there are medical reasons why it’s a challenge to lose weight, but it can be done and MOST people don’t have the medical reason IMO.
Very interesting about the sizing.
And:
Hello? Dr. J? I do work out, honest. You can ask my husband. I don’t claim to eat a perfect diet, but I do try to eat my fruits and veggies. So what should I look like? I want to know.
Did that sound bitter?
Crabby wrote:
Although in my experience, the Fancy-Ass brands were faster, rather than slower, than the mainstream brands to change their sizing in a way that seems to make you seem smaller than you are. But I shop the sale racks, so who knows, perhaps my experience is unusual.
Actually, I would expect more expensive brands to evolve their sizing faster than budget brands so that’s exactly what I’d expect. A brand is more expensive for many reasons beyond the obvious (fabrication, color trends and styling). They invest heavily in sizing studies, the latest research either via TC2 (the study results cost $20,000) or they’ll hire a company like Alvanon for a private study. The reason budget brands are slower to change is they’re reactive in evolving their sizes. And, they’re cheap. They steal their sizing data via reverse engineering. They buy the best selling skus from the better labels and measure or disassemble the items and then upgrade their sizing accordingly. Unfortunately, it’s often done poorly. Second generation errors from reverse engineering are typical which are then copied by still other manufacturers who are even lower in the pecking order than the first level copiers.
Re: Sales Racks. These items are there because the maker missed the mark somehow. These styles are then analyzed, fit being a primary focus.
I have to agree with Dr. J, also.
If people take a long, hard, truthful look at their habits concerning energy in (calories eaten) and energy out (calories burned through working out, as well as normal daily activity), I think that would explain why weight-loss goals are not being achieved in most circumstances.
EVERYTHING counts – little bites of food here and there, drink calories, and on the activity front – taking the stairs, getting up more frequently to walk around the office if you have a sit-on-your butt job, etc.
I’m not saying this is a problem for all with weight struggles, but I know some people, my father specifically, have a skewed perception of the whole “energy in, energy out,” concept. He thinks just exercising affords him the ability to eat more. While, yes, this can be true in a way, people have to realize that it’s a lot easier to eat 600 calories (um, usually a SMALL restaurant meal), than burn 600 calories (for me that’s a lot more time than I want to spend on a treadmill!). This is something that is good for people to be aware of.
And on the other hand, I think sometimes people screw up their metabolisms by not taking in enough calories. This has been discussed before in the diet and nutrition world many times, I know.
There are just so many variables… but I think having knowledge about all of this and being truthful with yourself will serve as an excellent stepping stone in helping you reach your goals. I’m just getting a bit long-winded here… Hope some of this jumble makes sense!
Another one intrigued by the vanity sizing comments. It irritated the heck out of me after I had my son and I found that I wore a size smaller after his birth than I did before, even though I hadn’t lost all the weight yet. But that explanation kind of makes sense – never thought about it that way.
The question I have is how it applies to shoes. I swear shoe sizes have changed. I wore a size 6 1/2 from the time I was 12, but a couple years ago (after the birth of my 3rd child, and feet often get bigger during pregnancy), I had to start buying a 6 or even 5 1/2. What’s up with that?
I, too, always love the comments here! fascinating stuff. Now if I could only get motivated enough to say something interesting on my own blog!
Javachick, I’ve found that there are so many kinds of eating plans, it sometimes takes some work to find the one that’s right for you (check out my new blog, today’s post is about this very subject). It’s kind of like dating, you have to date a bunch of different kinds of foods before you find the right package for you.
Charlotte, did you see So You Think You Can Dance this week? They had a Bollywood number that was awesome, and it reminded me of your post this week.
That’s really helpful info about the vanity sizing. I thought they were just sizing them that way to make people feel better about themselves and buy more clothes, but it does make sense that since people are larger now, the average size would be larger.
I’d like to give my answer in the form of a question?
And vanity sizing runs rampant. I have clothes that range anywhere from a size 6 to a size 13 depending on the manufacturers’ whims and the style/cut.
Just so you know, I was totally rocking back in forth seeing these pictures lol.
I love reading the comments. It’s a great way to see other peoples points of view.
The primal blueprint question is a really interesting one which I think might have a ring of truth to it- there IS a possibility that that is how it would have worked. Although, on the other hand, perhaps because women had to give birth and all they ate more of the meat and such because they needed more fat for the baby? Just throwing it out there (I really have no idea).
Also love Dr. J’s comment- I think he’s got it absolutely bang on. You’ve got to be honest with yourself. Sure, I’m healthy most of the time, but I’m well aware that I could still be eating a little better and all. I don’t, so I’ve still got a bit of pudge. It’s because I don’t put in that extra little bit of effort that I haven’t gotten rid of it. But that’s okay; we’ve all got to have some pudge on us!
Related to javachick’s comment, and dr. j’s comment:
I think it’s well established that different people are differently adjusted to being able to consume certain foods–foods like wheat and dairy have associated illnesses related to their consumption (celiac disease, lactose intolerance, respectively). But such illnesses are likely not binary relationships (i.e. either have it or don’t)–they are far more likely to lie on a spectrum, and the associated symptoms are likely to lie on a spectrum too. For instance, I can drink a cup of milk a day and feel fine, but 3 cups of milk causes significant gastric distress (if you get my drift…). We are probably all a little bit gluten intolerant (most of us not the extent of celiac’s), with some people being more tolerant, and some less. It’s not a stretch to hypothesize that different people can consume sugars at differing levels without significant adverse effects too.
I guess what I’m getting at is that each of us has different capabilities to digest different foods, and it’s incumbent on the individual to experiment and figure out what works for the individual. Calorie counting can be a useful tool, but if it’s not helping, then perhaps it would be useful to dig a little deeper into the data and switch up the macronutrient ratios or even the individual foods.
Also, the formula is not as simple as calories in vs calories out. The commonly used numbers (carb 4, protein 4, fat 9)are the results of burning the foods in a lab setting. The human body is not a lab. And, as was touched by marksdailyapple the other day, not all protein is burned as energy–some are used as structural building blocks. Same goes for fat–cell membranes for one are “phospholipid bilayers”, which basically means a bunch of fat. Although carbs can be converted to fat for energy storage, the current thinking is that most (non-fiber) carbs are eventually used as energy (fiber just passes through the body). So, my take on all this is that carb calories count a lot more in the weight equation than either fat or protein.
Love all the comments, and all the POVs!
Can I just say, on the whole calories in/calories out thing, that it seems like a lot of folks have messed up their systems with yo-yo diets? When many of us here were kids, it wasn’t so much about the lifestyle, but about the fad diet. I think a lot of folks our ages and older went on a number of crazy diets (or ended up with EDs) that did a number on us.
That being said, I also believe our current hectic lifestyles, profusion of “convenience” food, and the near-disappearance of any kind of physical activity for kids, is creating the current situation.
I’m a bit torn about this: I believe in NOT judging people based on how they look, and that it is possible to be healthy and heavier. I know a few clinically obese people who take much better care of themselves than many of my thin friends. I ALSO know that I have changed my diet, exercise daily, and am still putting on weight (which frustrates me no end, believe me!)and am trying to accept my body as is. But there is still a strong desire to lose weight. Diets don’t work. Things like WW don’t work for me because I slip right into my bulimic mindset.
I feel I have finally gotten physically healthy (despite the extra pounds) and am working on getting mentally healthy.
Sorry for the long and rambling post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents. (Which ended up being 10 dollars.)
I agree with Dr J’s comment, because I think fitness is simple. But simple things often are not easy. Why is it difficult to loose weight for many (or most) people? I suspect there are lurking psychological and emotional issues which effect everything from our self-image to energy level to appetite.
When I hit a plateau, I generally just push through it. Still, when the simple things become a struggle, it might be time to examine the source of that conflict.
The response about vanity sizing was very interesting. I wish they could just go by measurements, like 25′ or whatever, it’s just more honest and consistent.
I appreciate everyone’s comments! Thank you!
It’s our differences that make us special! This is a very special group of folks!
In reference to when it became popular for snarky kid remarks: The Simpsons. If you go back to what shows were on TV, prior to that show you had The Cosby Show and their ilk, nothing where kids talked back. The Simpsons was the start of that, along with Married with Children, etc…