Researchers from Wake Forest University shocked the world by discovering that men agree on what kind of women they find attractive: “thin and seductive.” Good thing they told me because I’m not sure Hollywood is getting that message across clear enough.
Going past that singular conclusion, there are some other interesting tidbits revealed in the study on finding consensus among attractiveness ratings. In a setup that I’m sure every college kid is wishing they’d got in on right now, researchers asked more than 4,000 people of both sexes to rate pictures of the opposite gender for how attractive they found them and what traits made those people attractive.
The results for the men were not so surprising: “Men’s judgments of women’s attractiveness were based primarily around physical features and they rated highly those who looked thin and seductive. Most of the men in the study also rated photographs of women who looked confident as more attractive.” The men in the study showed a high degree of consensus in this conclusion. But anyone who has read a ladymag or seen a movie in the past twenty years could have told you that. Men like beautiful women who appear to want to have sex with them?! Shock me, shock me, shock me with your deviant behavior. (Irrelevant but anyone else grow up quoting Empire Records like I did?)
The results for the women were more nuanced: “As a group, the women rating men showed some preference for thin, muscular subjects, but disagreed on how attractive many men in the study were. Some women gave high attractiveness ratings to the men other women said were not attractive at all.” While I’d like to give my sisters mad props for embracing a more diverse ideal, I think these results reinforce the findings of previous research that women place a higher emphasis on other aspects of a man rather than his looks. Like, for instance, his earning potential. One study even found that “the number and frequency of a woman’s orgasms is directly related to her partner’s wealth.”
So they’re shallow but we’re gold diggers. Lovely.
The researchers conclude that this emphasis on a narrow definition of attraction may be why women feel more pressure than men to conform to societal standards of beauty. In other news, chocolate is yummy and puppies are cute. My conclusion? This pretty much sums up Sex and the City.
What’s your experience? Does this explain Michael Douglass and Catherine Zeta Jones?
So Empire Records was filmed where I live. Just so you know. 😀
To be honest, there are studies that show guys are more visual than girls. When you look at it that way, guys and girls are both shallow, just in different ways. Guys tend to be more shallow about looks, women tend to be more shallow about money/success. That said, some people are a lot more shallow than others. Again, it's just in different ways. But yeah, not exactly a surprise.
wow, thin and seductive…i was going for fat and awkward. thank god they did this study!!
woman's orgasms are better with wealthier guys!!? not sure this is true for me, but i guess i've never really dated a guy with a lot of money, so maybe i'm missing out? 😉
Even blind men are more visually oriented.
At least, I read the memoir of a blind mountain climber. He reported that "fat women" would try to pick up on him, because he wouldn't judge them on their looks. He learned to ask his friends to judge a woman's looks before dating her. As he put it, quite cheerfully, "I'm a pig."
"So they're shallow but we're gold diggers."
Love it!
After reading this I started wondering if men's definition of "thin" for women is the same as a women's definition of "thin" for women. Because I am holding onto the hope that men really do like more to a girl than the skeletal Hollywood anorexic types.
Well, not to get all Darwinian on ya, but it does make sense-just humor me and assume that we are all here for one reason: to propagate our species. (This is the one take-home message I learned in my undergrad Psycho-bio major).
If that's true, then men want women who will make their offspring more attractive, thus attracting more mates, and procreating. Women want men who can provide for them so that they can reproduce at will and not worry about silly things like where food's going to come from.
There…the product of 4 yrs of a ridiculously expensive undergrad university…summed up in a comment on your blog! Charlotte, what did you do to deserve this?
I think I would like to see exactly who these men were — meaning racial and ethnic identities, immigrant status, etc etc. because in my experience white men from America tend to go more exclusively for the thin+Hollywood-esque type while men from other cultures/ethnicities/races and countries tend to be more inclusive of the women they find attractive. At least in my experience and observations. My husband, for instance, is from Eastern Europe (Albania) and he sees absolutely nothing wrong with girls (including me) who are a little chubby; he definitely prefers chubby to skinny and I see that many of his friends seem to share that perspective.
Also, in my experience, men's definition of "thin" and women's perception of it (and the media's definition of it) are often NOT the same thing. I think most men would consider a girl who is normal weight or even slightly over normal weight to be "thin" enough. And I really think it's a matter of proportions too — there were studies in the past that suggest that men are subconsciously drawn to women that have a certain hip-to-waist proportion even if they aren't extremely thin.
Finally, I don't know how much this really plays into normal life — I'm chubby and I'm married, I have friends and cousins who are even chubbier and they have boyfriends and husbands. I know some women who are really overweight and they're married too.
In terms of Darwinian theories — I think American people over-estimate how much the rest of the world is like us regarding issues of marriage/reproduction. From my observation, it seems that the norm in most places outside the US and developed Western Europe/Japan is for most everyone to get married and reproduce, regardless of physical appearence. Most of the world still relies on traditional or semi-traditional marriage arrangements and most people, beautiful or not, are expected to marry and have children. In the so-called developed countries, there's no mandate towards marriage and people are left to their own devices to find, attract and bag a spouse. Granted, our system offers much more freedom of choice and independence, but there is a good chance that if you're not beautiful the way the media says you have to be, you will.. you know… die alone.
So anyway, I disagree to a large extent with the notion that evolution creates these kinds of preferences. I agree it might play a PART, but I think human beings have lived in social groups that encouraged marriages based on tradition, religious practices, wealth, politics, mutual dependence, etc. for a VERY long time in which physical appearence was not the most important factor — or even a factor at all. I also think most of the world still relies on these older marriage systems which, again, are not based as heavily on how the bride looks as dating in the US does.
Honestly, I'd like to know what version of "thin" the researchers went with. If they mean "thin" as in a size 6, okay. If they meant "thin" as in "Hollywood thin", it's a bit more in the "duh" category.
frack.
after the VMA debacle your utilization of the word GOLD DIGGER hath left me with this:
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no brokeBROKE
Get down girl, go 'head get down
Get down girl, go 'head get down
and TMI? Im doing just fine on the ODept 🙂
and we have no money…
I abstain from the actual discussion. I'm not getting in trouble for this topic.
As far as "Empire Records" goes…
Debra (Robin Tunney): "God, that is so clever. I swear you get smarter the shorter your skirt gets."
Gina (Renee Zellweger): "And you get smarter the shorter your hair gets, so it's probably a good thing you went with that. It's a wonderful look for you darling."
-or-
Debra: "No visible tattoos."
Gina: "No revealing clothing."
Debra: "We're both screwed. At least you're used to it."
-or my favorite-
Gina: "Welcome to MusicTown. May I service you?"
That is all.
Merry, that blind mountain climber story is hilarious! What are we coming to if even the blind are judging on looks? Odd….
In my experience, women are visual about men also. Knowing this, I still can't explain Henry Kissinger's success 🙂
As far as evolution and sexual selection goes… It can explain why we women like a nice V shape torso and broad shoulders on a man (a visual sign of lots of testosterone, and good protection/providing). The same study said that men are attracted to fat in a women (pear-shaped, with good breasts, of course), a visual sign of lots of estrogen and enough vitality (i.e. fat) to create and give birth to a healthy kid even in tough periods (when less food available). Sorry for all the non-nerds out their, I'm a 4th year undergrad in biology opt. evolution/adaptation, so this type of discussion comes as easily as breathing to me 🙂
So it's actually us North-Americans who are out of touch with our instincts; we are much more a product of society than nature. I'd like to know those men/women's background as well, because in a lot of other cultures (Africans, for example) fat is beautiful and healthy.
That picture has made me giggle for about 5 minutes now.
The increased orgasm and money thing amuses me actually…Not to be crass, but I want to know if they asked the men or the women about how many orgasms they were having -perhaps we'll fake it more for the rich ones?
Geosomin, LOL!!!!!
I always wonder about these studies; who, exactly, are they talking to? Are people pointing out the ones they think they're SUPPOSED to like? Isn't there an aspect of fantasy in studies like these, just as in advertisements and movies? What ages are the folks in these study groups? Because in real life I see LOTS of "regular-looking" folks who are happily married and well-adjusted.
My husband is about 5 inches shorter than I am. I've put on quite a bit of weight since we first started dating. (I was anorexic when we first met, but that's another story for another day.) We've never been rich. But we have 2 wonderful kids, a cool dog, nad a great intimate life. We're happy. So I think this idea that you have to look a certain way in order to get married (or even get a date) is bogus. You just need to find the right person. And if someone won't date you because they think you're not thin/rich/attractive enough? They're obviously NOT the right person!
forget about the actual study, I love they way you write! I have been laughing the whole time I have been reading this post! 🙂
Thin and seductive.
Do men like this type of women because they are hard-wired for it, or because it's all they see in the media so they associate it with beauty?
It's the "which came first?" of the modern age, and even without the poultry I've never been able to figure it out.
Ok, there are a lot of really intelligent comments up today, so I don't really have anything to add.
Except, please, please, PLEASE tell me that the money for this study came out of corporate pockets and not out of my taxes. Please? Even if you have to lie. OK, then.
Does not surprise me in the least. I also heard a study that men spend so much time talking to attractive men that they have no "brain power" left for hard mental tasks after talking to a pretty woman. Course they tested this by having men talk to pretty women & then asking them to do some hard mental work after… the whole thing is no surprise to me based on my experiences & just living life.
The thing they leave out of these studies is the distinction between which pictures the people find most attractive and which ones they'd most want to date. Because seriously, I think Eric Dane (McSteamy) is hot as all get out, but I'm not all that interested in his type in real life. Studies like this seem to exist in a vacuum separate from the actual process of dating and attraction.
Well what a surprise I don't think. Seriously though, why do they even bother with these case studies where the answers are shockingly obvious!
Oops.. just saw I made a typo.. men talking to pretty women…. how crazed was my original statement. I hoe you all got what I mean. I really need more sleep! 🙂
I freaking loved that movie and indeed grew up quoting it. I love Lucas:
"Who knows where thoughts come from? They just appear."
"What's with today today?"
"The fat man walks alone."
…priceless.
And on topic, duh. And the sky is blue, the grass is green, and I like cheese. Didn't need a survey for that!
Why why why wwwwhhhhhhyyyy do they spend money/time/effort on studies like these?!
Although I have to say that in effort to understand body image better, I've been really taking a good look at people when I'm talking with them and figuring out where exactly I get my impressions of them from. The confidence thing TOTALLY makes a difference in how attractive that person appears. There's a lot of really good looking people out there who are so shy that it hides their attractiveness.
I remember seeing flyers advertising this study, because that's where I went to grad school! And no, I did not participate in the study, so I can't say whether I fit into the norm or not. I'll go with not, though, because I definitely did not marry GP for his money. Seeing as how he has none.
Im not sure if im buying this…lol…where was this study done…at the local gym?…lol…Anyway thanks for the post….Good material.
I was talking to a friend today, moaning about how I just wanted to marry rich (so I wouldn't have to study for an exam, I'm in college). She was like, "Ya I'm already going to do that". SHe told me that she wouldn't be attracted to someone who wouldn't be able to 'take care of her' later in life…(to be honest, that makes perfect sense to me).