Four years of Psychology has made me a huge fan of social experiments. Yes, my undergrad is in psych and yes, I’ll wait for you to stop giggling. While it didn’t make me a good counselor – as evidenced by my choosing Computer Information Systems for my graduate degree – it did give me a good background in how the human animal acts in herds.
These social experiments come with risks. You may recall the summer I was hired as a research intern to see how much free ice cream people would eat if no one was watching them (answer: a LOT). That one ended more than once with the subject screaming or crying from anger or embarrassment. The worst part though was that as part of the deal I also got to eat as much free ice cream as I wanted but the entire summer I didn’t touch a bite for fear that someone was going to weigh the garbage can after I left. It’s taken me a long time to be able to eat ice cream in a public place without taking my garbage home with me. (Incidentally only one of many ways that my psych degree has made me a stranger person than when I started out. Learning what happens when you take a steel rod through your brain and live to tell the tale really changes a person. Plus now I can name 50 uncommon fetishes.)
In addition to bad reactions from subjects, social experiments can be difficult to watch because many times they expose us to the worst in human nature. Take, for example, Stanley Milgram’s studies in obedience to authority in which subjects thought they were administering shocks to actors, increasing the “dose” until it was beyond pain and nearly lethal. The point was to replicate the social circumstances of Nazi Germany in which so many people sacrificed their friends, neighbors, coworkers and even family members to Hitler’s death regime. Sadly the experiment showed in a big way that it wasn’t just a few random Germans of that time period that could be manipulated into perpetrating horrendous acts.
So you will understand why I watched this with apprehension. Sure, ABC’s What Would You Do, a show that sets up controversial social situations and then films as bystanders react (or don’t), wasn’t pretending to kill people but they were publicly humiliating an overweight woman and I was sure it was going to get ugly. The setup: the show has an overweight actress applying for a job at a health foods store. The manager, also an actor, refuses to accept her application because he says her weight would make the store look bad. First, watch it: (It’s about 8 minutes and totally safe for work. If you are getting this through e-mail or a reader, please click through to watch.)
Were you surprised? I was. Maybe I’m jaded but I was amazed at how many people came to the actress’s defense. I could see a lot of people thinking in their head that what the manager was doing was wrong but quite a few of them actually took the next step and said something. Some people comforted the actress while others confronted the manager or asked to speak to the owner. My favorite responder was a man sporting a shaved head and multiple visible tattoos getting so upset over how the woman was treated that he left his uneaten food in the store and stormed out after yelling at the manager. Perhaps he understands how cruel it is when people judge you by what you look like?
There was only one woman who agreed with the manager and commended him for his “honesty” adding that society “coddles people too much.” I don’t know if the show just didn’t show other patrons that sided with the manager (I think they have to give ABC permission to air their face? Maybe?) but the only other slightly negative bystanders were two girls in their early 20’s who said “I plead the fifth” and held up their hands as they walked out past the actress. Either way, by the end of the clip I wanted to jump to my feet and clap!
I think ABC makes a really good point, albeit in a slightly scary sensationalist way (seriously is there anywhere you can go without fear of being recorded?). I’ve talked on here before about how my friend was denied a job at the Godiva chocolates store that I worked at because of her weight. My manager told her they had no openings when she came in to apply despite the fact she’d told me the night before they were desperate to hire more staff. When I questioned my coworkers about it once succinctly explained, “Oh they only hire thin people. I mean we’re selling chocolate. People don’t want to be reminded of what will happen if they eat too much of our product.” And I’m sure that she was not the first person to lose a job because of her weight.
A study reported in the New York Times from clear back in 1992 states, “fat people are less likely to be admitted to elite colleges, are less likely to be hired for a job, make less money when they are hired, and are less likely to be promoted.” If anything, weight discrimination has gotten worse in the intervening decades, according to a 2010 study. Yet conversely “65% of American men and 81% of American women supported making weight-based discrimination illegal, particularly in the workplace.” Clearly there is a disconnect here between what people think is right and acceptable and what is actually happening.
Honestly, I’m not sure what to think about all this. On one hand I’m cheered by the ABC clip but on the other hand we still live in a world where young Kelly Osborne is purportedly considering gastric bypass surgery because she gained back 14 pounds of her famously hard-lost weight on her recent vacation and now she’s afraid she’ll lose her job as the face of Madonna’s Material Girl clothing line.
What did you think of the clip? Did the manager have a point – do you need to look healthy to work in the health industry? What would you have done? Have you ever seen weight discrimination in your workplace?
P.S. Thank you for all the sweet comments on my new site! I love it! Don’t forget to enter my huge giveaway! (Plus I just added another item!)
i’m glad so many people stood up for her! i was nervous just because of your lead-up to the story – i was a psych major too – social experiments never seem to show the good side of human nature….
but even though so many people stood up for her, this explanation (from the manager) is usually not the reason given for denying employment, even though, as you demonstrated with your godiva chocolate experience, it is often the actual reason. it makes me so frustrated to walk into some stores and only see tiny people working there. not that being tiny is bad, but knowing that they are a smaller percentage of the population, makes it quite obvious that there is some selective hiring going on…
i’m not sure where i’m going with these ramblings, but i think your post brings up an excellent question! i’m excited to read more of the discussion.
Woohooo – give it up for the psych majors! Seriously was that not the most fun 4 years you’ve ever had? And good point about how in real life the manager wouldn’t have said it to her face.
Wow! It’s pretty amazing how many people stood up for her!
Appearances, as we all know, can be deceiving. This is such a loaded issue for me because, as you know, I teach pilates and I’m not exactly skinny. If I were still living in New York or Los Angeles I probably wouldn’t have been hired.
I know fitness pros who are extremely UNhealthy: they overexercise and starve themselves in order to maintain what is perceived to be a desirable image for their clients. But if their clients knew what their trainers do to look the way they do, they’d probably be horrified.
My local Whole Foods has people of all shapes and sizes working there, and it’s not a big deal. I think what one gentleman in the video said is right; you want employees who are personable and have people skills.
I agree- personality is way more important to me than how they look.
Yes, yes, yes. EXACTLY, Alyssa. I have also known more than couple fitness instructors and trainers who were extremely unhealthy, yet were praised for being so “healthy” and committed to that “health.” It made me sick at times (I witnessed it as a fitness instructor and personal trainer, myself). One trainer would complain about being so sore every single day (she worked out with almost all of her clients, day in and day out) that she would have to drink at night to numb the pain and ease the stress of leading a lifestyle that was too intense and unbalanced. There was NOTHING healthy about how much she pushed herself, her body, her sanity, her stress levels and then numbed it with alcohol. That’s just one of, sadly, a few stories I have about fellow instructors and trainers. People CANNOT judge “health” based on looks. It is so much more than that!
i love that show. i’ve only ever seen it on accident though, i have no idea when it really airs. my fave episode involved nursing public. so so interesting.
ooh I haven’t seen that one! I’ll have to go look it up. I’m mesmerized now.
So should fashion houses have to hire overweight catwalk models? Should beauty magazines hire models with acne?
The appearance of people hired to work in shops is a fundamental part of their job performance. The fat person working at the health food store or chocolate store will sell less product than the thin person.
I don’t think that’s a good thing, but that doesn’t make it less true. That being so, management is justified in wanting to hire only thin people. Whaddaya gonna do about it? Make it illegal? You can try, but for any job vacancy there are usually a vast sea of applicants, each of whom have no knowledge of each other’s experience, making it impossible for them to know whether they’ve been excluded for their appearance. Knowing this, managers will be safe to discriminate against fat people er, indiscriminately.
Very good point – I imagine that unless they were dumb enough to say it explicitly it would be really hard to prove. I also agree with this: “I don’t think that’s a good thing, but that doesn’t make it less true. “
Charlotte, this is a really interesting video and I had never heard of this show before. I could only stomach watching about half the video and turned it off after the woman commended the manager for being honest. To be honest, I am really torn on my feelings with this issue.
On the one hand, I do not believe weight should be a factor in hiring unless it somehow could impede the performance of the individual in the position, though I cannot for the life of me even come up with an example. Perhaps if the job was to play an oompa loompa and the person is of normal height and not orange. As an earlier commenter pointed out, chocolate is going to make you fat regardless of who sells it to you and one’s size has no bearing on his or her intelligence.
On the other hand, I do believe something needs to be done about our obesity epidemic. (Not hiring fat people is NOT that something, mind you) It just makes me wonder where is the line drawn between coddling/reinforcing bad habits and being realistic? My roommate, who is about as opposite from me diet wise (it’s a bit gross) as you can get asked me the other night if I would ever “eat normal food again”. I told her I DO eat normal food.
What is NOT normal about chicken and vegetables? And when did fried chicken, pizza, cake, and fast food every day of the week get considered normal? I’ve been thinking about writing a post on this along with self image.
Write that post!!! I want to read it! And this: ” Perhaps if the job was to play an oompa loompa and the person is of normal height and not orange.” totally made me giggle.
I can’t help but think wit the way we are bombarded with images of thin women being the ‘i’only ideal’ that even if a normal weight, healthy person did apply for a job, they too might be discriminated against for being overweight, even if they are nothing of the sort. It’s amazing how people can be judged so harshly sometimes.
Very interesting point! That’s true – many people don’t even know what real “normal” is anymore.
Love your new site design–looks great! For me, I know that it would be hard for me to listen to a doctor’s advice if that doctor was an alcoholic, overweight, smoked, etc. If she can’ t take care of herself, how can she help me take care of myself? Likewise, I could see myself having the same reaction going to someone for health-related advice, be it at a health food store, a personal trainer at the gym, etc.
I have to be honest, I went to a GNC a month or so ago and the employee that rushed over to help me was overweight. I’m overweight, actually obese, and she was bigger than I am. And I did not buy anything from the store, I left. I talked to a friend about it and he had the same experience and left the store w/o making a purchase as well. It was hard to have someone who was bigger than me try to sell me on how awesome these diet products work and try to push me into their diet lines even though I was just there for protein powder and vitamins. I think that in a business where the whole goal is to achieve a certain look, whatever that may be, it’s hard to have someone that looks the opposite selling the items. I’m not saying someone must be stick thin – but look healthy. And for a business owner – you have to know your customers and if at least 2 of us left without making a purchase, I doubt we are the only two. It’s like personal trainers. I could never hire a personal trainer that is overweight. I actually would LOVE to be a trainer myself – but I know that I need to get in shape myself – even though I know a lot about exercise and have helped others with their programs. It’s not fair, but it’s life.
I actually agree that sometimes we are too PC on how we handle things. Do you really want to walk in a place that is supposed to help you become fit and healthy and see someone who looks like your before picture or what you are scared of becoming or staying? I think that if we all are honest – we don’t. I don’t. It does not put confidence in your products in my mind and it makes me wonder if they work. It also makes me uncomfortable since I’m working my hardest to not be obese/overweight. Honestly, the only way I could have had a different opinion is if she had a button on that said I’ve already lost XX % or lbs so far on these products, ask me how. And in our PC society – that would have been another lawsuit waiting to happen.
Very interesting about the person’s health history making a difference to you. And don’t you love how GNC automatically funnels all women to the weight-loss wall-o-supps without even asking you why you came in?? That has happened to me more than once and it makes me want to punch them.
This is very interesting. I unfortunately can see both sides of the arguments. Businesses want to make money and turn a profit and I feel that weight can definitely have an impact on people’s decision to purchase. Whether or not it’s consciously or sub-consciously on the buyers part. I feel the majority of people wouldn’t want to admit that but, as an earlier commenter mentioned, an extremely overweight person cannot sell diet products that “really work.” They come across as non-credible. Does that make it right/ok to refuse someone a position? Definitely not but unfortunately it’s the way it is.
Obviously it’s not fair to judge how healthy people are based on how they look. I think that I’m okay with taking diet advice from overweight people. I’m certainly okay buying food from anyone, regardless of size. I never go into a store like GNC, so I don’t know how I’d feel there … I’m so glad that so many people stood up for the woman, though. My issue is not that the manager didn’t want to hire her because of her weight. But berating her in front of an entire store of people? That’s the ridiculous part. I’m so glad people mostly recognize how inhuman that is.
” My issue is not that the manager didn’t want to hire her because of her weight. But berating her in front of an entire store of people?” TRUE! Like another commenter pointed out, how are you going to tell if someone doesn’t hire you because of your weight unless they actually come out and say it which is ridiculously rude.
But wasn’t that part of the set-up? I mean, in real life I don’t think that would ever happen. Much more likely no one would say anything and her app would just get tossed in the trash.
I saw this, too and as always when I watch that program I try to think of what I would really do.
Sadly, this mostly happens in a behind the scenes way — as it did with your friend in the Godiva store.
I think it may be important to fit the corporate scheme of where you work…for example, a Whole Foods worker should probably not be in uniform out front smoking a cigarrette, but to base it entirely on looks is not right.
Some heavy people are really healthy!
PS- If Kelly Osborne finds a DR willing to give her that surgery I will lose all faith in the medical field.
Charlotte, I can’t wait to see your new blog! I’m on my phone in bed right now so I’m only seeing the mobile version but as soon as I drag my hiney out of bed I’ll check it out.
I had no idea you were a psych major. Sooooo interesting. Brent was a psych majaor too and now designs websites and video work. I don’t think had any idea how useful his degree would be as a husband though. 😉
As a personal trainer. I really relate to this post. I feel pressure to maintain a certain
look. I have had clients hire me bc they said they want a tummy like mine. (I’m honest and
say it is mostly genetics and food 2 things I can’t do much to help them with by laws of
people or nature). I knew when deciding to be trainer that there would be some pressure. I doesn’t bother me bc I truly enjoy living a healthy fit life and encouraging others to make changes like I once did.
You know what really bothers me though? Assumptions of others that people who are lean and fit have eating disorders or don’t enjoy life. I just dislike assumptions in general though.
True, there’s always the reverse discrimination aspect. I don’t think that happens as often as the scenario portrayed above though. I’m glad you are honest with your clients! For the record, I want a tummy like yours too;)
No manager would EVER discriminate so openly. Not unless they’d just been hired.
Second, I think the actress would have stipulated in her contract a little more stringently about what the ‘manager’ could say. Third, I don’t know what I would have done.
I just don’t know.
I can hope, but then I’m prone to hide from dramatics too.
True – the situation was very contrived. Likely it would never have gone down like that in real life.
I picked a bad weekend to be out of blogworld! Your new layout is fab and I missed a giveaway? Whaaattttt.
Obviously it’s clear that weight is not the only indicator of health. My husband, Max, is a bodybuilder (there’s pics of him all over my blog) and in his attempt to gain muscle and weight he actually has some very unhealthy numbers…his cholesterol is super high, his blood pressure is very high (because he’s got an extra ~40lbs of muscle — his heart has to work really hard to get blood to all of it), etc. But to most people, he looks like the picture of health…and yet most obese people probably have lower blood cholesterol and pressure than he does.
Girl you can still get in on the giveaway! It’s open for a week! And so interesting about your husband’s stats. You rarely hear the other side of it like that.
Ok I don’t have speakers at work so I’ll have to watch at home, but just your explanation of the clip is good enough (I think?). I’m glad people came to her defense. I honestly don’t know what I would do if I were there. I tend to freeze in situations where I should stand up for myself or others, but I would WANT to say something.
I think a lot of us tend to freeze! But they say awareness is the first step to overcoming that so maybe you and I will both have more guts now;)
I don’t see how not hiring someone to not work at a health food store is any different from Victoria’s Secret only hiring thin models. Appearances matter to people, otherwise we would be going to work in our underwear. Somehow people that let them selves go in terms of weight and getting fat get a free pass, but if someone was dressed all crazy it would be ok to make fun of them.
Oooh good point: “but if someone was dressed all crazy it would be ok to make fun of them.” Just like the issue with The Sartorialist last week and the people of walmart site…
I would think that working in a health food store would encourage someone to be healthier. Of course not all doctors are in better shape, but as a whole the health of doctors is better than non doctors.
Excellent point Dr. J! I like the way you think.
You know, we often judge people when we don’t know the slightest thing about them. That woman could already have lost 80 pounds on her high raw, low fat vegan diet. She could be walking 5K a day and cycling for transport. She could get blood tests done and be healthier than any of those customers, or the “manager”.
I must say, I am also surprised at how many people spoke up about this… There are indeed more good people than bad people out there.
” There are indeed more good people than bad people out there.” It’s a beautiful thing isn’t it? I wonder if people who shop at health food stores are more likely to be socially conscious ergo more likely to speak up?
Not the most popular or PC opinion but here are my 2 cents:
While I don’t expect everyone I see on the street to look like a supermodel nor do I think its fair for people to assume who you are because of your weight… I do understand how from a manager’s position someone who is very overweight or very unhealthy looking might not be the best candidate…
In my opinion someone who stays within a reasonably healthy weight and who stays fit shows qualities beyond their appearance… Someone who is fit and healthy makes me think of someone disciplined and of someone who isn’t afraid of working hard towards goals…
Yes, I am aware this isn’t *always* the case as there are unhealthy thin people and healthy overweight people but that’s what comes to mind initially…
*runs far, far away from the flames*
Nobody’s going to flame you here, angie! We’re all nice:) And I do totally understand your point about it being a credibility issue. While it doesn’t seem fair to judge people on something so superficial we DO have to make snap judgments all the time about everything from how people dress to the color of their skin. Acknowledging that we all operate under these perceptions is helpful.
I’m happy to see so many people stuck up for her. I’m eat healthy (and actually do most of my shopping at a local health food store) but am overweight due to hormone issues. At my size my blood levels and everything are healthier than my friend who eats wings and pizza almost every day. Why should how I look affect how I would to the job and be able to tell the customer about the products sold.
The difference of a model is it’s in the job description for the company. I don’t see where it would be in any retail positions job description to be thin. Heck my doctor is overweight and smokes, yet continues to practice and advise patients against both.
Very true – no one can tell your health history or health status at a glance.
This is an interesting discussion for me because I own a gym and I am faced with these kind of decisions everyday. I have seen overweight trainers that are very successful. I never understood it but I have seen it happen.
Hey some people are just natural gifted teachers!
OK, jumping back in for a sec: I think heavier trainers can be successful because heavier clients feel less intimidated by them. If we see someone who appears to be overweight working in a health food store, maybe we’ll also feel less intimidated about shopping there. Maybe society will change its perspective the more we see heavier people in every situation, as well: we will realize that shape doesn’t necessarily determine health, and that a heavy person at the gym/health food store isn’t sending the wrong message, but a hopeful one.
Right now, those of us who are heavier are kinda damned if we do, damned if we don’t: if we show up at a Whole Foods, we’re desperate and pathetic, whereas if we show up at McDonald’s, we’re stupid and disgusting. We can’t win.
I love your point about overweight people being more comfortable with an overweight trainer/sales person! but this: ” if we show up at a Whole Foods, we’re desperate and pathetic, whereas if we show up at McDonald’s, we’re stupid and disgusting. We can’t win.” makes me so so sad.
As usual, many people confuse weight with health. Is “health” food designed to make you thin? What if you’re already thin? Do you become emaciated if you eat the so-called healthy food? Who, then, is it healthy for?
People have different degrees of health at all weights – fat people aren’t the only ones who die. They’re not the only ones who get cancer or diabetes or hypertension. Body weight is ONE indicator of health, and not a very reliable one. If the store sold weight-loss nostrums only, then a fat person might be a liability. Otherwise, it’s just soft thinking and false stereotyping.
Very well put!
I didn’t watch the video. I was really happy to hear that people stood up to the man, BUT I couldn’t watch because I have been in similar situations. I once witnessed something bad and I still regret not speaking up. Since then I decided I would say something when I see a situation that makes me uncomfortable. But try being the one person in a crowded grocery store who goes over to the women who is practically beating her child and ask her nicely to stop. I got more nasty and uncomfortable stares than she did, which makes me question if I did the right thing.
Society might tell us its the “right” thing to do, but that doesn’t make it the easy thing to do.
Your last line sums it up perfectly!! And *I* am so grateful that you intervened for that poor child. Maybe you got some stares but all that matters is that that little kid saw someone intervene on his/her behalf. Good for you!
I haven’t watched this because I’m at work and have no sound on my computer. Plus my computer really doesn’t like your new site – it’s so slow. That is definitely this computer though!
I don’t know what I would do as a customer in this situation though. I think I’d probably end up not saying anything but never going back and not recommending the place to anyone else. I’d like to think I’d speak up and perhaps I would but either way, I’d never give them my business again.
That said, I don’t think I could accept a health-store worker who pushed diet piells at me who was overweight themselves, or an overweight personal trainer etc. In those situations, I do think appearance matters.
Yes, I think probably a lot of people would silently take their business elsewhere. “Voting with your wallet” can make a big impact too!
I think this is a tough situation. I love going to my little community local store here (because of all the local goods), but it’s partially because the people that work there seem…like total hippies. And as much as I am clearly pro-establishment, I do have a soft spot for those granola-crunchers and their ‘of the earth’ lifestyles. However, I know the owners, and I know that the employees there are very a self-selecting bunch. It’s not exclusionary by choice of the owner, but it seems like it is because of who applies there.
Conversely, there is a hippie coffee shop across the street from me, and they are super judgemental of those that are not ‘of the earth’-types. I walked in wearing a suit one day after I had been to court, and I have never been treated so poorly. They slammed my change down on the counter, etc. A friend described it as ‘unless you have dreadlocks, or spent an hour outside playing your bongos, you will get no respect in XYZ coffee shop”. It’s so true, my charcoal suit and cream wool coat were treated with disdain. But, if I go in wearing jeans, a hemp tee, and birkenstocks, I get a lot more love.
It’s the legal part that gets me, because you can’t discriminate based on certain things (at least here in Canada…though I’d assume its the same in the US). For example, there’s a lounge in our city that exclusively hires hot girls as waitresses, and they get around it legally by hiring them as ‘models’. Seriously, that’s what their employment contracts say- so the girls have to stay ‘hot’, because that’s part of the job description.
Thank you for explaining the legal aspect! I know a lot of the previous commenters had questions about that. And that’s a bummer that your hippie coffee shop isn’t more accepting – I guess all types can discriminate.
This is a very thought-provoking one. It’s clearly wrong to judge others based on the superficial (and appearances are so superficial), and even more wrong to disparage them in public as happened in the video. If I’d been there, I don’t think I would have confronted the manager, but I probably would have told the applicant/actress that I thought his treatment of her was bogus. But: image does matter. I hate it, but it does. I (briefly) belonged to a gym where a lot of the personal trainers and class leaders were quite overweight. On the one hand, I admired them for being active and interested in a fit lifestyle…but I really didn’t feel inspired by them. I wouldn’t have paid extra for personal training sessions from an overweight trainer. Because how would I know that their advice would take me where I’d love to be? Maybe that makes me a bad person, I don’t know. I hope not. But just as, as a bird-watcher, I wouldn’t take advice from someone who didn’t know a chickadee from a sparrow (though I would be polite), I wouldn’t take fitness advice from someone who didn’t seem fit. I was glad to see how many people came to the woman’s defense, though. I’ll be thinking about this one for a while, so thanks for this post!
I think it’s the “polite” part you mentioned that is crucial. People think what they’re going to think and I’m not going to pretend that I haven’t had similar thoughts about overweight personal trainers etc. sometimes but kind people will stop the thought before it leaves their mouths. The manager in the video added public humiliation to it.
Hey! Loved the article, I’m a long time fan, first time commenter. I hate to be the devil’s advocate but I actually agree with the “manager”. As employees for any business, you’re playing a part in the appearance of the store. That’s why Hollister only hires beautiful people, it’s a form of advertising. As a marketing manager, that’s what I would do if I owned a retail store.
I can totally see your point of view. I think the difference though is that you wouldn’t (I hope) publicly shame an applicant in front of customers if you chose not to hire her. (And thanks for de-lurking!)
Hey Charlotte, please stop with the absurdly positive responses to every comment, regardless of its content. It comes across as deeply insincere and gives people no idea of what you really believe.
Hey Simon – I think I made my stance on the issue abundantly clear in my post. Just because I can find the good in any comment (it’s a skill) doesn’t mean I’m insincere. If I tell someone I can understand their point it doesn’t mean I agree with it. Besides, anyone who posts a reasonable, appropriate and civil comment on here deserves a like response, which is what I aim for. But if you’d like clarification I’m happy to oblige.
The problem is not “finding the good in every comment”, but in expressing only that “good” at the expense of a more well-rounded, 3-dimensional, complete response. To use an Australian expression, you’re being gutless. I don’t know what you really believe, except that you seem to have an almost neurotic need to keep people happy. That might be legitimate, but it might simply be a spammy attempt to maximise traffic to your site.
I share your ability to understand other’s points of view, even when I disagree with them, but that’s not an interesting skill. I find it far more interesting for people to directly engage with differing opinions and seek to unpack the assumptions and premises of others. That’s what would make me come back to your site.
Heh, gutless works equally well in American too:) And I think I may have some insight into why you and I have such differing opinions on this – after all what’s “pandering” to you feels like “connecting” to me. Am I correct in assuming you’re a man? (Just guessing from your name) Not to sling stereotypes around but it does seem that men favor a more confrontational and direct style of argument whereas women (the majority of readers on my site) need to be reassured of a positive relationship before they are interested in pursuing opposing thoughts. I’m NOT saying one way is preferrable over the other – I think both have their place – but it might explain this disagreement. It also might explain why I don’t have many male readers, hahah!
And take me or leave me, it’s all good. Just know you are welcome here at any time.
P.S. If YOU are interested in a more involved debate on this subject, like I said before I’m happy to engage. Just don’t tell me that is what OTHER commenters want,
I cannot agree with not hiring a person to work in a health food store based on their weight. I agree with the point made previously that it can be less intimidating to approach someone who is not model perfect when someone is starting on their own journey to change the way they eat. My main point is that not all customers are alike, how can you demand all your employees look alike in a business that is basically a fancy grocery store? Everyone has to eat, that’s ridiculous! I have been a little overweight for my entire life (10-30 lbs) and when people hear I am a vegetarian… the looks on their faces and the up and down looks I get are amazing. I have more than once lost my temper and quite hotly told them that vegetarian does not mean skinny. Eliminating animals products does not equal eliminating calories and exercising.
I teach classes on interviewing and one aspect that always comes up is looks when getting hired. There was a recent study done (lost the link or else I would share it) that had “applicants” submit pictures of themselves along with their resumes. Not surprisingly, attractive people overall did better but, the most attractive women were not selected for interviews. The way I explained it to my class is, as a woman, you can’t be smart and pretty, you can only be one or the other. The “hiring managers” went primarily for people who they ranked as above normal in their looks but not super model beautiful although there was more leeway given for men.
Yes, there are jobs like fashion model, and trainer where looks and physical ability play a role in the job, those are called Bona Fide Occupational Qualifications – I want to know that the fireman who comes to pull me out of a disaster can sling my butt over their shoulder or at least drag me to safety but retail? I cannot and will not agree with such practices in retail. We are a consumer society and a poorer society for it. Look at how the poor woman in the clip was humiliated. For. A. Job. When did that become acceptable?
I love “What Would You Do.” Sometimes I’m so proud of the people and sometimes I shake my head and wonder how they could stand by and watch. My favorite episode was when the actress left her baby in a hot car (it was a doll). Very interesting.
As far as this particular topic, as someone who is overweight and previously obese according to the BMI, I think it is important in some jobs but not so much in others. In fact, I had a conversation the other day regarding the morbidly obese fire fighters and police in a certain town. I decided if there were an emergency, I’d feel better taking care of myself than relying on them to save my life. Scary thought, really.
But, in jobs such as retail sales, I will buy from anyone who is friendly and knowledgeable…and doesn’t follow me around trying to sell me stuff I’m not interested in. Nothing will make me leave a store like snobby, rude employees. It truly doesn’t matter what the company sells.
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I just read four of your posts and you are great with it. Why are you afraid of criticisms. I think criticisms are there to either give you feedback you or just pull you down for the sake of not letting you go up. You have a gift for writing. I think you will definitely do great with this. Kepp on writing. I love it.
That show is awesome and cringeworthy at the same time, but this is a really interesting topic. I think that, in the case of a health food store, it shouldn’t matter. People are going grocery shopping regardless of what anyone else does, so it’s not like the employees need to “sell” anything. Sure, they might be giving out samples or something like that, but no one needs to sell me on groceries, so I don’t think they really have an affect.
BUT…I do think that when it comes to “selling” something, appearance matters. Maybe it’s not the nicest thing in the world to say, but it matters. I read a lot of fitness blogs, and one in particular of a girl who is a personal trainer. This girl isn’t fat or overweight or even chubby, but it is very obvious that she is “out of shape” and has gained weight since her earlier blog days. I’m not saying she’s unqualified, a bad person, ugly, fat, shameful, or anything else. It’s a statement of fact, and I’m not sure why we have to dance around topics like that, or why this blogger couldn’t address it. I don’t want weight loss or weight maintenance tips, or upper body workout ideas, when this woman doesn’t seem very honest. I don’t doubt that she has the knowledge to give advice, but that’s like my doctor telling me to not smoke, but has a bunch of cigarette boxes in his office. They can talk the talk, but if they can’t walk the walk, I don’t trust them. Why is this woman telling her readers the best arm workouts to give you awesome shoulders and triceps, when, to be blunt, she doesn’t seem to do them? I would feel the same way if I went into Sephora and the sales girl had huge dark circles, frizzy hair, etc. I’m not saying she’s ugly or inferior, but if you’re selling a beauty product, what’s going on?
I know that counter argument to this is that beauty is subjective and that knowledge and experience and personality are important, and so on. But, if you’re working as a trainer (for example), don’t tell me that you’re above the ‘superficial’ aspects of life. I think that “discrimination” is when you are judging by race, gender, sexual orientation, or whatever. But, I think people are way too PC about the “gray areas”. Does this mean I can freak out and say I’m discriminated against because my 5’5 130 pound ass would be kicked off a runway? Or what if I wanted to be a race director but had never ran a day in my life? Or what if I really wanted to be a Starbucks barista but believed that coffee was really bad for you? I think owners/managers have a right to want to hire people who best fit their image and goals.
I actually think it’s fair. Businesses can hire based on whatever criteria they want, and in your Godiva example, I can see why a store might not want an overweight person to work there. Is it right? I’m not sure. But CAN a store make that decision? I think they absolutely should be allowed to. Now, if applicants want to complain about it, the public can vote with their dollars and not shop there anymore… but I think the store manager has the right to act in what he thinks is his best interest.
I agree with everyone though who said this was NOT the right way to handle it. I think it’s right that people stood up for how rude the manager was; I just don’t think the fake applicant had a leg to stand on in terms of not wanting to be discriminated against. It’s not really discrimination if the manager really thinks it’s a BFOQ (bona fide occupational qualification) for the job, and she’s not in a protected class.
I am really late to this comment party, but I saw this just the other day.
I work at a sporting goods store specializing in team sports. It’s one of those big corporations where all of the applications are submitted online. This means that the first time the manager sees the applicant is at the interview.
Interviews generally last anywhere from 10-20 minutes if the manager is interested. In the past month, in spite of being spectacularly understaffed without a wealth of new applicants, I have seen two people get the brush-off. Both were obese people, a man and a woman. In some fairness to the manager, the man lacked some basic conversation skills and seemed to be more comfortable talking to people through some sort of gaming interface.
The woman though? I called back to the office to let him know the interviewee was at the store. He indicated that he had been planning on an interview at that pre-determined time. While waiting for him to come to the front, she and I had a pleasant chat. He got to the front of the store, saw her for the first time, and said that he didn’t have an interview scheduled that day and that she must be at the wrong store.
Oh wow, that’s really depressing. And what a missed opportunity for your manager too. And the funny thing is that if he wants “athletes” to work at the sporting goods store, being skinny doesn’t necessarily mean the person has any athletic ability or strength.
Absolutely. It is a symptom of a culture that is endemic in the company. There are a whole lot of white people, particularly white guys, and the people who get the promotions and raises are these guys. It seems to happen over golf.
I stopped trying to share these frustrations with the men I work with. The women get it as they have seen and experienced similar things, but we never get to see each other because we’re all cashiers.
Nice