On Monday a farmer in Northern Ireland, upon meeting the international pop star Rihanna, did what I imagine very few red-blooded men would: he publicly admitted to not knowing who Rihanna is. Okay, that’s true, but my great uncles would probably all say the same. No, his real shocker was kicking Rihanna out of his grain field where she was filming a music video. Her crime? Looking too sexy. Alderman* Alan Graham explained that when he saw the singer strip down to a red bikini top and jeans he “felt things were getting inappropriate.” He added, “I had my conversation with Rihanna and I hope she understands where I’m coming from. We shook hands.” And the hand shake makes three things most men would never do if they met Rihanna.
This issue of beautiful women showing their bits to make money has been covered more times than “Let it Be” so why did this story spark such an interest for me? Because of the way people are reacting to Graham’s reasoning. He could have said that he kicked her out of his field for trampling his crops, being a distraction or even for not paying him but instead he told the truth: he was uncomfortable with her style of (un)dress and considered it inappropriate. He didn’t tell her to cover up. He didn’t call her a slut. He didn’t tell her she was going to hell. He didn’t say anything except how he felt. And how he felt was uncomfortable. Whether or not you agree with his assessment – and for the record I didn’t find Rihanna’s outfit in this case to be particularly shocking, especially given the standard for women in music videos; I was more appalled that she was smoking – I think he was very brave to share it.
It is not p.c. these days to tell a woman that her sexiness makes you uncomfortable. Allegations of sex-shaming, burqa-inflicting and even insanity fly (because a man would have to be insane to turn down a free glimpse of cleavage, right?). But my favorite of all these accusations is jealousy and it’s usually the one targeted at other women.
A few years ago I wrote a post questioning a popular fitness figure’s in-your-face sex appeal as her primary marketing technique. To sum it up, I felt like her body and her skill set were already so amazing that she didn’t need to fall back on close-ups of her huge boobs and videos of her barely-clad butt to sell her expertise. To this day I love her and I love her workouts – girl kicks my much-more-clad butt regularly – and yet I never watch her videos and when I’m on her site, I scroll down until the pictures of her aren’t showing anymore. Because the oversexualized outfits and poses make me uncomfortable.
People don’t believe this answer. Every week or so someone drops by that very old post to leave me a comment saying some iteration of “Stop being such a hater! You’re just jealous! If you had her body you’d flaunt it too! Women are allowed to be sexy!” I hate the “you’re just jealous” argument because it stops all further discussion with a character assassination. There isn’t any point in discussing social mores or sexual politics or how women are treated in our society when you write off all opinion as jealousy. And also, it just isn’t true.
1. I don’t hate her or Rihanna. They are both amazing, talented women.
2. I’m not jealous. Sure I wish I had abs of steel but I feel more admiration for all the hard work I know went into building those abs than sour grapes that I’m not as hot as her (a fact I willingly admit).
3. And I wouldn’t flaunt it even if I had it. First, it’s against my religion. My LDS faith has guidelines about what needs to be covered, and I adhere to them. Nobody makes me do it, it’s something I’ve chosen to do. I don’t feel stifled or repressed, rather I feel more comfortable and more like myself. Second I think it is a disservice to all women to use sex as our primary source of power. It reduces us to a single aspect of our being and marginalizes all our other talents.
4. Women are allowed to be sexy. But since when does a woman having the right to express her sexuality mean that all women have to do so at all times or else they’re just jealous and/or ugly? I find this mentality particularly prevalent in the fitness industry. It’s like there’s this pressure on women (and somewhat on men as well) that they need to prove how fit and healthy they are by showing all the goods, as if real health can be ascertained by a quick scan of glutes or pecs. And the issue isn’t a girl who runs in a sports bra and shorts because that’s how she’s most comfortable on a hot day. The problem is when a girl feels like to be taken seriously as fitness professional she has to wear a push-up bra (or get implants) and wear cheeky shorts even though they may make it harder for her to workout. The problem is when your body becomes your resume. I suppose it’s inevitable that a profession built around bodies would also show a lot of them – but I would argue that the context matters. You can show a great physique without sticking her in a bikini and making her bend over a chair and do that weird trick where you use your arms to squish your boobs together and make more cleavage.
In the end, I’m not judging anyone or denying them their right to do as they please. I’m not even telling them to cover up (totally not my place). Like Graham, all I’m saying is how I feel. And for a variety of reasons this constant message of a woman must be sexy before anything else makes me uncomfortable. Call me a prude. Call me a Bible-thumper (yes Mormons believe in the Bible). Call me an old-wave feminist. But don’t call me jealous.
I don’t expect everyone to agree with me on this – and I’m totally fine with that – but I am interested in taking the discussion further than name calling. What do you think about female sexiness and the fitness industry? What do you think about the farmer and Rihanna?
*Apparently “Alderman” is a specific title that has religious and political connotations that I had no idea about. Cherry explains this all very well in the comments!
I think its a perfectly okay thing for him to do, and I’ll count my blessings the day I meet a man like that who wants to marry me. Women complain about being sex objects to men, yet they flaunt their cleavage because they want to be sexy. I don’t know if its just me, but I’m pretty sure those two are the same thing.
I tried out BodyRock.tv for about a week, and while the workouts were great, I didn’t need to see her implants. The more I explore my Christian faith, the more I realize that these “strict” rules that were made (and handed down without much explanation from my parents), are pretty much the same conclusion I’ve come to on my own as an adult.
I’ve always been notorious for wearing the most ugly workout clothes (infamously wearing basketball shorts for the longest time until a couple of years ago), and ugly ratty t-shirts or black “wife beaters”.
I had a friend who, after developing a crush on a guy in her kickboxing class, started wearing a pushup bra underneath her sports bra to give her cleavage. I *did* tell her how awesome she was, and how she’d deserve him because of her genuine awesomeness, but she never believed me.
This is why your blog is so awesome – you keep it real, and you’re an inspiration to women!
I found this: “The more I explore my Christian faith, the more I realize that these “strict” rules that were made (and handed down without much explanation from my parents), are pretty much the same conclusion I’ve come to on my own as an adult.” to be true in my own life as well! And thank you:)
Flash forward 16 years to when Jellybean is in high school and you suspect she’s fornicating with her beau. How will that blog post read? Offer to take her to the dr for the pill?
Huh? I’m confused. I think you kinda missed my point. (Either that or I missed the point of your comment.) I can’t tell Rihanna what to do or wear because I’m not her mother. Jelly Bean on the other hand is learning every day what our family standards are and I hope that by the time she’s old enough to make her own decisions she’ll choose to adhere to them.
Good for you Charlotte and your hubs, too! Jelly Bean needs that strong daddy to show her what a real man is and to best demonstrate our Father’s love.
Agreed on ladies relying on their sexuality too much. The excessive sexuality in so many areas of life is actually more repressive than anything else. Honestly, adding it on to the variety of other demands that are placed on me…it’s…sigh. Just sigh.
That’s true – it can feel like one more thing we “have to” do and be. It *is* exhausting.
But since when does a woman having the right to express her sexuality mean that all women have to do so at all times or else they’re just jealous and/or ugly?
I think it’s all a matter of choice. Saying that women must be sexy all the time, like much of the media does, sends the message that women are objects. Conversely, saying that women must be covered at all times sends some of the same message to me, since it’s saying that there’s something there to be either ashamed of or worried about, reinforcing the external point of view to me. I respect anyone’s choice to cover up at all times, though, because unlike the other option I can’t think of a situation in which it isn’t appropriate for external contexts. Done right, it can even be cooler on a hot day. I think the key here is that it needs to be a CHOICE, and that we can recognize that different people have different thresholds of what must be covered for decency / comfort / various social situations — and if you’re in a social situation that you have to be in, and someone repeatedly makes you feel uncomfortable due to a mis-match in those threshholds, we should be able to have a discussion about it!
I too love Zuzana’s workouts, but find some of them hard to watch, even though she has one of the best bodies out there. I think there is a level of sexuality that isn’t necessary in fitness videos – it’s present in about half the fitness videos in any store.
As for Rihanna, I’m really amused by the story of the Irish farmer. I bet she never expected someone to protest at a (relatively modest) bikini!
Firstly, I agree with you views in this post. I do believe that it’s all about choice. What I think is sad is that I don’t believe that stars like Rihanna have choice. Their management will insist that they need the sexy factor to be popular.
However, what I find most interesting, is how differently I saw this article at a casual read. There is a little bit of sub text that give a very definite implied meaning to someone who knows the political/reglious background in Northern Ireland.
The article mentions on a couple of occassions that Alan Graham is a DUP alderman – ie a member of the Democratic Unionist Party. This political party was founded by Ian Paisley and is very closely aligned Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. They are known to be a fundamentalist church – and are generally what my mother would refer to as ‘real hardliners’.
The BBC have stayed away from specifically making any religious comments, however by labouring the DUP point, it’s very obviously implied for any one from NI.
My first reaction to this article was to wonder why on earth someone booked a field owned by a member of the DUP to film Rihanna in. They were never going to be compatible when this a man who almost certainly believes that women must cover their heads in church!
One other little point – Mr Graham would probably be rather offended at being referred to as an Irishman. I think he would tell you he is British not Irish (or at the very least Northern Irish) and that you missed out the capital N on Northern Ireland!
Oh wow – yes, I totally missed ALL of that. Honestly I didn’t realize “Alderman” meant in either a religious or political context. Thanks for taking the time to educate me and to explain all that. I added a note up in my original post that people should read your comment to understand the subtext. And I also changed it to British and fixed the capitalization! Thank you!
I guess I’m not around fitness videos/models enough to notice any overt sexuality. I haven’t done videos on years and since I exercise at a y, local running trails, or at home it isn’t really an issue.
In the farmer’s defense, Rihanna wasn’t just wearing a cute bikini top for a video. I stumbled across the nsfw pics accidentally yesterday, and she was also dancing around topless. To me that puts it in a different category of uncomfortableness.
Really?? The BBC story didn’t cover (har!) that aspect of it. Thanks for pointing that out.
yes yes yes yes NUMBER FOUR.
I belong to a group.
when there was talk of a group outing to promote said group with a focus on fitness one woman said TIME FOR THE BOOTY SHORTS.
I wanted to poke my own eyes out and shout REALLY?! REALLY?!
I know Im seizing # four and tangenting a bit but Im old school FREE TO BE YOU AND ME FEMINIST as well.
Thank you! Yes to your whole last line.
Great post Charlotte. I’m not religious, but appreciate what you’re saying here. Thanks! 🙂
Totally agree, and I think I would agree even more if I were a guy at a gym trying to focus on my workout and kept getting distracted by a constant stream of bouncing boobs.
(Also have no clue what Julia’s point is.)
While I personally don’t mind women working out in skimpy outfits, I don’t like the pressure to look sexy while working out. What makes it worse is that most women’s fitness magazines, books etc. tell you to wear skimpy clothes to the gym when you are fit, so that you can show off your physique. (This was one of the things about Rachel Cosgrove that most bothered me). This gives the implication that people who cover up just aren’t fit enough to show off any skin yet. If that seems far fetched, I actually had a (female) trainer tell me that she had assumed I was out of shape because ‘I dressed like it’ and that I should show off more. While I appreciated her telling me I had something to show off, I did not appreciate the assumption that I was out of shape based on what I wore, and I was not about to make myself uncomfortable in the gym just so I could look fit. The point of working out is to get stronger and healthier, and if you are just focused on getting ‘hot enough’ to work out in a sports bra and shorts, it may never happen; after all, that is more about self confidence than fitness.
On a side note, on thing that really bugs me is the focus on cleavage with fitness models: Being fit does not equal being well endowed- it is usually the opposite.
I think we need to turn the argument on it’s head: the question isn’t “Are women allowed to be sexy?” (Of course we are), it’s “Are women allowed NOT to be sexy.” At least in western culture. Because the message is that women (and girls) MUST be hot or else they are worthless. When scantily-clad women are used to sell everything from beer to plumbing supplies, we stop questioning the images and start taking this mindset for granted.
And let’s face it: a lot of women (not all) who use their bodies and sexuality to sell a product (and often that product is themselves) do so out of insecurity, pressure from the industry, or a combination of both. I’ve heard countless producers and agents, usually male, talk about the fact that they prefer younger female clients/employees, because the younger they are, the less they protest.
I agree. I don’t dress provocatively because I don’t want people to look at me for *that*, but to know me for WHO I am. I also think that it looks cheap. I am not trying to be judgmental when I say this, just observational, but my friends who dress really provocatively have very low self esteem…even though you would think it is the opposite. I feel badly that they have to go out of their way so that they get people to notice them.
Honestly, I’m torn on this blog. I feel adult women should be able to wear what they want (as long as they are covered by at least some scraps of cloth!) and that if a person has a problem with it, hey – they can look away. A person should dress how they feel most comfortable.
Maybe it’s because I’m from the Midwest, but I honestly don’t really see “society” wanting women to be “sexy” all the time. In Hollywood, yes, there are some stars who feel that pressure, but there are also stars like Jennifer Garner or Anne Hathaway who are quite famous and beautiful without rocking the sexy card, too.
In my day-to-day life, I honestly don’t know any women who feel pressure to vamp it up (unless they are going out clubbing or want to make an ex jealous) – just pressure to be thin and attractive. Most everyday people I know who are overtly sexy end up getting somehow “punished” by it through society, through dirty looks from other women/men, losing a job, not being taken as seriously, being told they “asked for it” if they get hit on or assaulted, etc.
As far as fitness goes, I have struggled with weight my whole life. If I ever got a 6-pack, I’d probably show it off (occasionally) in the gym or out running, and wear more form-fitting daily clothes. I would have worked harder in my life for that than anything. I also would like to point out that loose clothing (baggier shorts, shirts that are floppy) can often be a fitness hazard in the gym – they get caught on machines, make it hard to see proper form, etc.
Regarding the Rihanna situation above, the farmer owned the land and if he was uncomfortable, he was well within his rights to ask her to leave – especially because they were not paying him for use of the land and no contract was signed. I think the way he handled it was very nice – not preachy or judgmental, just honest.
Great post, as ever, Charlotte.
In my opinion, it’s all about context.
Wearing a swimsuit or a bikini on the beach?
Fine.
On the street?
Probably not a good plan.
But?
That shouldn’t be against any law,
nor does it mean that others have the right to harass the wearer-of-skimpy-clothing.
I wear short, tight dresses when I dance salsa.
That’s contextual, and as an adult, an appropriate choice for me to make.
I don’t wear a short, tight dress to run in.
I think the Alderman was perfectly gracious in his response,
and it’s his land, so he has the right to declare what is contextually appropriate there.
I think men and women should be free to wear what they want in private spaces,
and be held to at least covering their vitals in public…just for the sake of cleanliness, at least. 🙂
I really respect him for that he did. I will dress provocatively for my husband, at home, but my huband is uncompfortable with overt sexiness in public, from me or other women. He says the “feelings” I inspire in him are private, and I agree. And I don’t want to inspire them in other men. I’m married but even if I was single – overt sexuality makes me uncomfortable in public. There’s a line between sexy and attracctive and looking skanky, and I personally hate going out to public events and being ogled or groped, so I try not to dress that way. I think both men and women need to step back form being so sexual in public.
I don’t need to put it all out there to know I’m pretty. You can look hot and still have your clothes on.
I do the bodyrock workouts all the time, since I have no access to a gym and they are amazing home workouts. I am personally not bothered by Z’s clothing. It’s not at all how I dress, but it doesn’t make me uncomfortable to see it on someone else. I watch the videos to see how to do the exercises – and I have to point out that it is actually easier to see the proper form since she’s not wearing bits of clothing that fall over or obscure movements – plus I see her stomach wrinkling up or puffing out as she works it and that makes me feel better when mine does, too. Men’s fitness videos show men working out wearing just shorts all the time, so I don’t really see why Z can’t wear as minimal clothing as they do (that is, clothing covering just the sexual parts). She gets much more censure for it, though.
The farmer seems to have handled things well, and of course was well within his rights, if it made him uncomfortable, since it was his land. Sounds like both sides behaved gracefully.
I agree with Geosomin that people can absolutely be hot with modest clothing.
I’ve never minded “putting myself out there,” so to speak, mostly because my attitude is one of that I feel comfortable in my skin and so if I feel like wearing revealing (but tasteful! I’m a classy lady ;)) clothing or sunbathing on a nude beach, then I’ll do it. But I also feel very strongly that there’s a time and a place for things like that (such as not wearing revealing clothing to the office, for example). Anyway, that’s going a bit off topic.
It’s great that he felt comfortable stating that he was UNcomfortable with her state of undress. I certainly don’t think it has anything to do with jealousy at all for a woman to say that they’re uncomfortable about it either (particularly if it goes against their religious views, like it does for you). And it IS very sad how much women rely on sexuality for marketing themselves/their products. Sighs. Also it’s very odd the things that make the news these days.
PS I have to say that I find it funny people would tell you that you’re jealous of Rhianna, considering how awesomely fit and toned your body is!
What bothers me most about things like this are the inherent double standards. Women are entitled to dress the way they want, of course, but our society places far more emphasis on a woman’s physical characteristics than it does on a man’s. This pervasive attitude has a limiting effect on impressionable young girls (who are probably Rhianna’s main fan base). So many of the available role models for girls direct their focus to looks while most of the male role models for boys focus on achievement.
When it comes to the fitness context, though, I don’t see as much of a double standard. Male and female coaches (especially those in the media) put nearly equal emphasis on their bodies. That makes sense to me. Let’s face it—most people hitting the gym are there to improve their looks. I’m not gonna take financial advice from the guy with the “will work for food” sign on the freeway offramp—why would I take fitness advice from a trainer who doesn’t look good?
I am so conflicted on some of this. I think people have the right to do what they want within reason & “the law” BUT I do think as one person wrote that women in the media are pressured to do certain things & have more pressure on them to be “sexy”. I don’t like what is happening in this country right now with a far right segment pushing their agenda which would basically take away rights of many to do what they feel is right & also pushing their own religious agenda. At least on the other end, everyone has the right to do their thing & if ya don’t want to do it, don’t.
Saying all that – I just don’t like Rhianna. 😉 Really, after all she went thru & then still did some really weird sh*t…
I think if we could all handle things in such a manner, by assertively saying how we feel without attacking anyone, the world would be a better place. I personally feel that there is a limit to how much a person needs to show, but I guess we all have our own feelings about it and freedom to have those. As far as the jealousy argument… HUGE pet peeve. It seems like our society has somehow moved to a place where valid, constructive criticism is no longer relevant. You are outright judgmental or jealous, especially if the person is popular or successful. There are many celebrities whose lifestyles I don’t agree with. Guess what? I have no desire to be them. There are many fitness “gurus” and celebrity trainers whose advice makes me cringe, such as Tracey Anderson (and Jillian Michael’s kettlebell work almost makes me cry.) I have no desire to be them, or to look like them. I never will. And I’m perfectly alright with that. We really need to break down the politically correct, overzealous, defensive barriers we have about everything and start having civilized discussions like adults. Easier said than done, I suppose. =(
Yanno, it’s not that much of a double standard. Just at a slightly different level. If there was a guy in your gym who worked out in speedos, you’d have no problems admitting to feeling a little uncomfortable. So would most of the guys. You might have the ‘right’ to wear what you like, but extending that to making a whole gymful of people uncomfortable is very impolite. Do you let people know when they are being impolite in other ways? Most people (if it’s a common standard of politeness they are (maybe inadvertantly) violating) would say it’s absolutely OK to speak up.
Now, on further thought, does it make most people uncomfortable to see a woman walking down the street completely covered except for an eye slit? absolutely. Does she have the right to wear that if she chooses? well, yes. Whole other can of worms! My theory doesn’t seem to work in reverse!
I am glad he stood up for what he believed in.
On the bodyrocktv.com I have her on my FB but have yet to watch a workout fully. I don’t mind her but yeah it is like soft porn maybe for the guys but eh it’s how people market themselves. Even Jillian wears capris that are barely above her nether regions on her dvd’s and such. I also think you can sell yourself with your fitness above your boobs which is why people probably follow her still.
It’s kind of like that one post you did about Turbo Kick with the sexiness amped up too much for working out. I don’t feel as a woman that I should be showing off my assets. I mean yes I’d still walk around in a bikini even in my current pregnant body. I have. But I don’t feel that every time I walk out the door I should be flaunting what I have or had….My husband actually even prefers it left up to one’s imagination what someone’s body looks like.
I think the farmer was right to kick her out of his field because he was uncomfortable. I’m not uncomfortable with the things she was wearing but if he was it’s his land and he has a right to kick him out. People get so bent out of shape about things…just let it go. I mean people throw up their arms when a pregnant women wears a bikini for crying out loud. I think our culture in general is overly sexed up and maybe we should take a step back and really look at ourselves and observe how insensitive we are to sexy images and clothes. I could fully do without all the models in Oxygen Magazine posing in bikinis to show off their bodies. I would much rather see them in work out gear that isn’t skimpy than what is on the cover now..
I don’t like the focus on trying to be sexy, OR trying to cover up to avoid causing bad thoughts in other people. Both ideas send the message that a woman’s body is primarily a sex object.
I wish we could focus on being healthy, and on the amazing things our bodies can do. Wear what you feel comfortable in, and what is appropriate to the activity you’re participating in.
Agreed with everything you say, Charlotte. The funny this is, sometimes I feel like the better I look, the more I feel self-conscious in the gym because everyone’s staring and I just want to work out! I don’t need to wear skimpy outfits — and no woman should when working out — because it’s not about being sexy, it’s about working hard and sweating and getting the workout done. Women like Rihanna (I don’t hate her either) are trying to put women on a more even playing field with men, yes, but they’re doing it by flaunting sexuality and I’m not okay with that. True, it’s hard to convince men to see as equals in any and all business realms, but come on! Don’t play the boob angle! We need to show people that we women are going to work hard and that we deserve everything we work for because we’re worthy of it, no cleavage or awkward grunting necessary.
I agree that just because someone’s overt sexuality makes me uncomfortable, does not mean I’m jealous! It’s such a catch 22 though… I tell my husband all the time that I want to be attractive, fit, look good, etc. I want him to think that I am the most beautiful and sexy woman he has ever laid eyes on. But I do NOT want to be looked at or checked out by random guys or strangers. I don’t need to be objectified liked that, and it makes me very uncomfortable. So how can we be both? How can we be more than a sexual object, yet be sexy and confident? I struggle with this quite often. I typically dress fairly modest, but sometimes you can’t hide big boobs or a bubble butt (nor should I feel the need to hide them – as if I am ashamed of them). So when I notice that a certain shirt gets me more attention than I would like, I stop wearing it. But that’s not fair either! It seems like either way, I am giving the power to society/men while I remain powerless.
I’m not very religious, and in no way would I consider myself a prude, but I frequently find the displays of flesh (of both men and women BTW) here in America to be tacky. It was especially shocking after I came back from living in Morocco for two years, where both sexes tend to wear either traditional garb, or slacks and shirts or sweaters, very tasteful and modest. Also, in terms of looking one’s best, usually more is more. I like to feel stylish, but at my age, a knee length skirt accentuates the positive…Daisy Duke shorts, not so much.
On the other hand, I agree with some commenters that too much emphasis on “modesty” is also designating women as just sex objects. For example, I can think of a time when I was about twelve or thirteen, and the priest at the very “traditional” church my father preferred scolded me for wearing short sleeves–combined with sermons about the sins of the flesh, this created a very skewed and derogatory view of women’s bodies that is probably part of why I’m not religious today…after a couple years, I just rebelled against it. There has to be a happy medium.
As for Zuzanna and bodyrock (referenced in a link), I never had a problem with her, but one time when I was watching one of her workouts on line, my husband, hearing the gasping and moaning as she did her reps, seriously asked me if I was watching porn! (Umm…that would be no!) So it’s not just the way she looks that’s suggestive….
I’m briefly catching up on your blog today (Sorry I’ve been MIA….I’ve been insanely busy) and wanted to say I love this post. As you can probably guess I agree with you. The farmer owned the land so he had every right to ask her to leave if he felt uncomfortable. You know how I feel about “zuzu”. At the gym where I taught a few classes almost all the trainers dressed very provocatively. Honestly, it made me uncomfortable and feel bad about myself. 🙁
BTW – I’m reading everything but I’m not going to be able to take the time to comment. I’ll be back to my regular commenting once we settle in on the road. 🙂
I really enjoyed this article. I too really get annoyed when people claim you’re jealous because you have an opinion they don’t like. certain states of undress don’t bother me, ie short shorts in the summer but in your face everything hanging out bothers me. I think of Kate Middleton as a classy lady, and one of the reasons is she dresses modestly without being frumpy. Also I think there’s a time and place to dress “sexier”. It’s all about balance.
One thing i really, really don’t get is the sexualization of female fitness models/competitors. It’s such a huge turn off from the sport. Time after time I’ll visit blogs and get disgusted and not return because it feels like I’m looking at soft core porn when I’m searching for diet and exercise info. So many of these poses look dated and trashy and I don’t get the point. Is their target audience men????
Also for the record I’m not religious in any way and I hold similar views!
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