Pretty sure this is about to be “bad sore.”
Great news: After about a year of stagnation I broke my deadlift personal record! By a lot! While this was awesome and made me strut around like Ashton Kutcher in a sorority house, two problems became immediately apparent:
1. I did a whole set at my new weight which means, as Gym Buddy Krista put it, “Clearly you haven’t been pushing yourself! If we’d known you had that in you… Never again will we let you get away with a wussy deadlift.” (Side note: for some reason the deadlift has always been one of my weaker lifts even though for most people it’s typically the strongest. I think I’m a little afraid of it because I think if my form isn’t spot-on then I’m going to throw out my back. I’ve never had a back injury and I’d like to keep it that way so seeing as I’m not a competitive weight-lifter I just figured “Why push it?” Yes I can see two immediate flaws in that logic but this is not supposed to be a post about deadlifts or my strange phobias (I’m also terrified of underwater caves.) FOCUS CHARLOTTE.)
2. I spent the whole next day trying to stretch my back in every possible way and texting the Gym Buddies “Zoooommmgoodness!! Can’t sit! Soooo sore!” (I’m convinced texting was invented just so the Gym Buddies and I can compare DOMS – delayed onset muscle soreness, the technical term for the pain that sets in about 8 hours after your workout.) It’s been four days and I’m still sore.
Ignoring the fact that I’ve been a wuss for the past year, the real question is: Is this soreness a good thing or a bad thing?
In the past, the Gym Buddies and I have defined soreness as either “good”, meaning it was just enough to feel like we really worked our muscles, and “bad”, meaning that we were so sore we couldn’t function and might possibly be injured. And believe me, we’ve had plenty experience with both. In fact, we’ve been so enamored of “good sore” that we will often judge the efficacy of our workouts by our level of soreness the next day. As in, “Whooeee, that kettlebell workout was awesome – I couldn’t sit on the toilet for days and had to switch to adult diapers which are more fun than you’d think and made me sympathize just a little with that crazy astronaut lady!” Kidding. None of us have ever used adult diapers. We just fall the last six inches to the toilet seat and cry which is totally not like a toddler at all.
But a recent comment on my T-Tapp Diva Derriere (a.k.a. the butt-slapping workout) post made me re-evaluate this standard. Laurel of Fun and Fiber wrote:
“I checked out the workout. Yes, it creates pain, but does that equal strength/toning or benefit? I have asked many people if DOMS is related to muscle gain, and from the research we have now, it does not. I’m saying this to put this workout down, I just wonder if we are pursuing the wrong things. I am doing the NROL4W, and am lifting heavier weight than I ever thought possible, yet am seldom sore the next day.”
Me being generally ignorant of the physiology behind weight training (my degree’s in computer information systems, remember?), I decided to see what the research actually says and it turns out Laurel is right. The venerable Josh Henkin sums it up thusly:
“The reality is that soreness is a very poor indicator if muscle growth is occuring. If you worked at a level that demonstrates overload you will cause muscle growth. In fact, muscle soreness on a consistent basis can be a sign of doing too much work and leading you down a path of overtraining.”
Overtraining?! Aw, crap. If you’ve read this blog for more than a week then you already know I’ve overtrained in the past even to the extent of suppressing my own thyroid and getting myself sling-shotted back into eating disorder therapy for over-exercising. To this day it remains my Achilles heel. And this is the point where I confess that I’ve been getting sore a lot lately. T-Tapp not so much, but New Rules of Lifting for Women was a definite yes.
Henkin adds that “Many top athletes train without any desire to experience muscle soreness as it impedes their ability to perform.” Well that makes a lot of sense, frankly. While none of us are athletes in Henkin’s sense of the word, all of us have had the bummer experience of doing TurboKick the day after a hard weight workout. It’s like trying to roundhouse with cement shoes. And as with most occasions, cement shoes suck the fun right out.
Okay so the research is clear in that it doesn’t have to make you sore to be a good workout but does that mean all soreness is bad? Not necessarily. We’ve all heard that weight lifting works by making microtears in the muscle which are then repaired by the body and in the process made stronger than before. But soreness may have less to do with the micro-tears and more to do with the activity that brought them on: “Muscle soreness usually occurs when you make your muscles do something that they just aren’t used to doing.” Since the Gym Buddies and I start a new workout every 30 days (ish), this means our muscles experience a lot of change and so some soreness is to be expected. Plus research has shown that keeping your muscles “confused” (thank you Tony Horton for psychoanalyzing my quads) leads to better progress because it keeps your body from adapting and getting too efficient at that particular workout. Also, contrary to popular belief, the research also shows that muscle soreness does not have anything to do with lactic acid build-up so while stretching afterward may help “work the lactic acid out” it still won’t prevent soreness.
To sum up:
You don’t have to be sore to gain muscle. (And also the level of soreness does not indicate the amount of muscle growth occurring.)
A workout doesn’t need to make you sore to be good.
A workout isn’t necessarily bad because it does make you sore.
Too much soreness can be counterproductive, both in regards to function and muscle growth.
Soreness should not be a goal of working out.
Ashton Kutcher should stay away from sororities.
T-Pain’s “Best Love Song” is good pain. And yes, I’m a little embarrassed to admit I love it.
I need to go to bed.
Do any of you judge a workout based on soreness? How often do you get sore? Anyone else weirdly afraid of a particular lift like the deadlift??
P.S. Doing a Google image search for “bad sore” is a really, really bad idea.
Ew. I can only imagine the results for “bad sore.” Nasty!
I like being just a little sore. Not so much that I can’t say, put my shoes on or sit down, but just enough to feel like I worked out. That being said, I get the DOMS whenever I switch routines, just like you. Butt, quads and groin muscles are the worst!!
I think calves are my least fave place to be sore. Yeah, they’re a small muscle group but holy crap does it make walking hard when they hurt!
Hamstrings are worse, IMHO. I hate not walking right. Also when you, ahem, visit the necessary and it hurts to sit and get up!
I haven’t been sore in quite a while, as I usually do the same workouts (mostly running). But then last week I tried racketball for the first time ever, and was so sore that I could hardly move for three days! I don’t like being too sore as it makes me skip workouts, thinking that if I can’t perform properly, there’s no need to do it at all.
If I went into the weight room right now, I would instantly be sore b/c it’s been months since Ive lifted. Yoga and running are my thing and if I started lifting, I’d be sore, asap. But that doesn’t mean that the fact that I am not sore most of the time from my yoga/running means that I am not getting a good workout; very good points and distinctions you made!
I like to feel like I’ve done something the next day but not so sore that I make old person noises when picking up my shopping. Fine line.
“not so sore that I make old person noises when picking up my shopping.” ROFL. Agreed.
I hate being sore, it makes me full-on dread whatever training I’m doing the next day and totally sucks the fun out of exercise. I’m happy to read this though, I have always been a intrigued about tthe whys and wherefores of DOMS. In some classes students complain about crazy DOMS (mostly Pilates) – others where I think they’re working super hard on , say, squats and lunges, they say not so much. I guess maybe it’s time to switch up my toning tracks!
UNDERWATER CAVES – eek.
Px
I’m kinda jealous you have a built-in experimental group to test on! Maybe I should go into fitness teaching;)
I like being a little sore but confess I never went back to a BodyPump class partly because I woke up at 2:00 to go to the bathroom, painfully went downstairs (so I wouldn’t disturb the hubs), then nearly cried and then almost HAD to wake him -and the rest of the house- up just to get off the toilet!! Hated that and wouldn’t do it again. Also, spent the rest of the night on the couch so I wouldn’t have to drag my sore behiney back up the stairs. 🙂 But, the little bit of soreness actually motivates me because (rational or not) I feel like I’m getting somewhere. Does that make any sense? Guess it’s another result of our microwave world. Love to start the day with a giggle from you!
Speaking of giggles – I have to admit your Toilet Sore story made me giggle. But only because I’ve totally been there too!!
man it will take, errr, I mean has taken (cuz Im there right? RIGHT?? :)) me ages to not think a weights workout was a waste if Im not sore.
I love me the weights sore.
and love me when bloggers spell it soar.
There seems to be an unintended double meaning there…
soaring 🙂
Just went back and re-read my post to see where I misspelled it… couldn’t find it? And yeah, I’ll admit to enjoying a good sore too.
Got to say I love this comment!!! I do love me some DOMS but just enough! I also have learned thru the ages that I don’t have to be sore to make gains as well but I just like feeling what I have worked on! 🙂
Me too- I feel if I’m not sore, I didn’t workitgurl! And a few yrs ago when I was over-trained, I wasn’t sore nor did I soar. Go figure. :-/
I do kind of like the “good sore” feeling. Not the 6-inch drop to the toilet kind, but the “yeah, I worked out today” kind. I’m not afraid of deadlifts, but I did throw my back out once doing them because I wasn’t paying attention to what I was doing, and OMG that hurt. I could barely move for days. Learned that lesson the hard way…
See? THAT is what I’m afraid of!
I relish the DOMS. Don’t go for it all the time, but I take a perverse satisfaction from getting sore when I know I earned it. (Got some good ones right now from backwards-running on Saturday!)
“but I take a perverse satisfaction from getting sore when I know I earned it.” I agree. We seem to see it as a badge of honor around here:) And now I want to add backwards running into my workout today. Thanks for the idea!!
1st; What is NROL4W? Next, I have a tendency to believe that 3 days of “T-Rex Arms” a la “Meet the Robinsons” equates to a hardcore arm day. Apparently that’s not the way to think, which is gonna be REALLY hard to overcome.
Next, I love how A.D.D. you are in your posts. I tend to do the same thing, as I’m sure you’ve noticed by my comments and I’m sure Crabby McSlacker can back up after reading my severely A.D.D. and slack off intermittent blog posts on my blog. LOL
Also, I would like to note that I have wondered if adult diapers may not be the way to go come fall finals week between studying, research papers, kids, husband, family, the dreaded commercialized holiday some call Xmas, and the everyday workouts and runs. Though, when I consider the ramifications of others finding out and the likelihood of diaper rash at 31, it becomes much less appealing. Just sayin’.
Have a great.day, Charlotte! And again, I think it’s very wrong for our parents to have separated us at birth. LOL
” I think it’s very wrong for our parents to have separated us at birth.” I agree! We need our own movie where we can be spunky red-heads and discover each other at summer camp.
Also, “T-Rex arms” is my new fave descriptor ever!! Makes me giggle just thinking about it! And I keep meaning to tell you that I’ve checked out your hilarious ramblings on your blog (um last post was Nov. 13, what, what??) but my comments keep getting eaten. I’m so glad your dad is doing better!
NROL4W is New Rules of Lifting for Women.
I guess it all depends on what your goal is. If you are trying to get bigger and stronger you will be sore. If you are trying to maintain, tone , etc,. not Mich soreness. If you are young you will get less sore. If you are older, you’ll get a little sore. Soreness heals faster than injuries 🙂
Actually, the point of the research I read is that this: “If you are trying to get bigger and stronger you will be sore.” does not have to be true. And good point about the age difference – maybe I’m just getting old Dr. J! lol.
I guess I am thinking about serious athletes that are in a hurry for results. Hard to believe that they do not get sore.
Hi, I’m Kim. And I love the feeling of being sore after a workout. I crave it as much as I crave the carbs I work out to work off. I ran for the first time in about 4 months yesterday and I’m positively glowing about the fact my thighs feel like they were run over by a mac truck. And I’m even happier because I was sore yesterday. I know I’m not the only one who is super geeked out when you get sore the day of the workout – because then you know it was a good one. So how do I judge if my workout was effective if I don’t feel it? I mean I feel sick when I eat too much, I feel dizzy when I don’t. I feel lazy when I don’t workout at all – so how do I know that I did a good workout if soreness isn’t a good indicator? I have never been the type to get that euphoric running through the flowers energy boost from exercise, so if I can’t trust my soreness, then I’ve got nothing.
This makes sense to me! When I started Pilates with a legit, talented instructor (as opposed to someone who just teaches an hour-long abs class), I was never sore yet I saw results like nothing I’ve ever experienced.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! So many of my clients wonder why they’re not always limping around after a workout. I try to tell them that they’re getting stronger (no, really!) and that they’re no longer newbies, so they won’t have as much soreness, but they don’t believe me.
And now I have proof.
Mwahahahaha!
I have to say that I love that feeling of just a little sore. Like when you get up from a chair and your legs tell you to slow down because they are a little tired today. LOVE IT. I do not love when I’m not able to dress myself.
I like to be sore once & a while because then i know i’ve worked muscles i haven’t used in a while (or just worked them differently). I fear i get in an exercise rut and force myself to do something different.
Every time i’m toilet sore i think of you though! Ha ha!!
Honestly, great to know. Often, I don’t feel super sore after weights and I was worried that I wasn’t working hard enough to see any results. Now ramping up mileage/long runs – those make me super sore! I don’t mind the sore, but I definitely wouldn’t mind it going away….
That is actually very, very encouraging to me.
I was upping the reps and sets on my Crossfit WODs,
and felt guilty (!) that my legs weren’t trembling with soreness,
and that CLEARLY I wasn’t working hard enough.
Dude.
This makes me feel SO much better.
I used to focus on being sore, but then I thought maybe that was a sign I’d overextended myself… as it wasn’t happening too often back in my running days.
Right around that time I switched to judging my workouts based on the sweat transfer onto my shirt. Gross, but true…
Such a great post. I am like you and tend to over-do the love of exercise, so I can relate with regard to experiencing soreness often. I guess I’ve always thought of sore as a good sign when I can still walk without pain and I’m not b*tchy or lethargic for 2 days following.
Great topic…I would say that most of my workouts produce some level of soreness, but not the type that affect the next day’s workout or would cause me to drop the last 6″ on to the toilet–that only happens every other month or so. 🙂
The two lifts I don’t like are the back squat and bench press–my issue there is that you need to have a spotter or a rack/cage…for all the other lifts you can just dump the weights assuming you have bumper plates.
Always sore. Or am I just tense? Now I’m not so sure… I want to know what you deadlifted (that can’t be grammatically correct, but I’m going to leave that as is). Why haven’t we ever worked out together? That’s my 2012 New Year’s Resolution: Workout with Charlotte.
For me sore can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on my perspective.
If I’m judging how hard I push myself based on it I can get into a negative spiral, get internally competitive, push myself too hard and end up injuring myself. But if I can listen to it as a sign new muscles are being worked or I was doing that new exercise right it’s usually ok. Still- if I’m too sore for too long it’s time for a rest day/s! Listening to my body is still something I’m working on but when it’s screaming it’s easier!
For getting rid of it the only things I can suggest are voltaren (not that its good for you), stretching and heat packs.
& Same with deadlifts!!! They’re my weakest lift when they should be my strongest! Ah well, I still love squats.
I’m one of those that likes being sore. I also “know” it’s not an indicator of a good workout but I still can’t help but to be a little disappointed if I’m not sore after a particularly intense workout. Not that I have many of those the last few months.
There’s a stiff sore that lets me know I’ve pushed myself, but I don’t like it when I am so sore I can’t do things properly. It doesn’t happen very often, but when it does I know to ease off. I’m trying to be healthy and live my life and being stiff like I’m 90 is only cool when I get to *be* 90 🙂
I do not relish the DOMS- but only get it when I completely change a workout and do more than I should have. Usually it’s my calves and it hurts for 4 days.
That said, I love that feeling a few hours after a workout where I feel the muscles. I don’t think of it as “sore” and it seldom lasts overnight.
Now for your fear of throwing your back out: check that your lats are packed tight and it will not happen. Impossible. Try it. Pack your lats and try to round your back (when you will hurt it). You. Can’t. Do. It.
i used to experience doms after working a weak muscles not yet strong enough to handle the load. total body strength training helps me avoid similar ‘falling on the toilet in pain’ moments. More recently, i started adding creatine monohydrate to my arsenal of supplements. have to say that i’m pleasantly surprised at how quickly my muscles recover. slight if any soreness. and i’m sure many of you know how brutal some of the P90X workouts can be.
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I definitely made a mistake in trying to evaluate my body’s soreness versus pain as being indicative of my effort level and mental toughness.
I thought I was weak, so kept pushing — it turns out that I was causing greater and greater damage to my spine, and so am now headed off to surgery this summer.
When I return, I will be much more careful!
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