Well this would solve my problem, I guess. Good thing they specified it’s the men’s toilet though – just as I was dreaming about standing and peeing…
The Zoo Incident started out innocently enough with my kids and I deciding to enjoy a beautiful Colorado day by checking out the new baby zebra at the Denver zoo last week. Like the good mom I (sometimes) am, I started off our adventure by trekking them all to the zoo restroom to ward off the evil sprites of My Brother Smells Like Poo, I Drank The Whole Water Bottle And Now I’m Sorry and – everyone’s fave – My Legs Are Wet And I Have No Idea How That Happened. With no family restroom available I sent the three boys (11-, 9-, and 7- years old) into the men’s as I hopped outside the door like a perv with a hand sanitizer fetish. (And let’s be honest, I kinda do. The only way I can ensure my kids have washed their hands is to make them hold them up so I can smell them. Such a fun little ritual for them to remember me by when I’m gone and they’re grown!)
After about 10 minutes – the average little boy needs approximately 37 seconds to pee – I started to worry. And then a little guy (probably 5?) came running out of the bathroom still yanking his pants up and crying. I didn’t have to wonder long why he was crying because as the door swung open I suddenly heard screaming loud enough to make the nearby baboons stop picking at their butts and take notice. “Mommy!” he gasped. “Something scary happened in there!” For a split second the other mom and I exchanged panicked looks, already imagining every kind of predator situation. But then the kid added, “Those two big boys are KILLING each other!!”
The mom stared at me as I said, “Those are my kids! I can tell from the shrieking.” Just then my oldest son came out. “What is wrong with your brothers?” I demanded.
“I dunno,” he shrugged.
“Well go back in there and find out!”
“I don’t want to! They’re rolling around on the floor and punching each other. It’s gross!”
“Well someone has to stop them and I can’t go in there!”
The spectators all looked at me waiting for me to do something as the yelling got louder. “What should I do?!” I asked no one and everyone. Nobody answered. “Okay,” I took a deep breath and threw the door open, intending just to stick my head in and see if anyone else was in there. Oh, there was! Didn’t even have to yell. I startled the man at the urinal so much that his pee stream made a question mark before his mouth could. “Oh gosh! I’m sorry! So sorry!” I gasped as I ducked back out.
Going on 15 minutes now, this was getting beyond ridiculous. I tried to remain calm (while all the while imagining cracking their heads together like coconuts the second they came out) as the fight intensified and more kids fled the bathroom. (As did the man. Who did not mean anyone’s eyes, especially mine.) At last I turned again to my oldest son, “Just go in there and drag one of them out! They can’t fight if there’s only one of them!”
“Which one?” He looked scared and I couldn’t blame him. Despite being the oldest, he’s also the smallest.
“Whichever one you can grab! Just go!!”
“What if they’re throwing poo?!”
“They’re not monkeys!” I retorted as I silently conceded he had a point. I wish I could say that feces has never been flung in our family but that would be a lie.
“Fine,” he sighed. At last he emerged literally dragging the 7-year-old with the 9-year-old running behind, both of them red in the face and sobbing hysterically. Each of them yelled over the other to try and get their version of the events out first.
I let them talk themselves out and when they were both finally quiet (all I could glean was they were fighting over a toilet, both literally and figuratively) I held both their little faces in their hands and asked quietly, “Did you pee?”
Silence. No, no they hadn’t.
So this time I escorted them one at a time into the ladies’ room, deciding that being forced to pee in a pink bathroom with your mom (and little sister!) watching was a pretty fitting punishment.
We went on to have a good time together at the zoo but the incident brought up – again – one of my main parenting dilemmas with having potty trained kids. When is a kid old enough to go in a public bathroom or locker room by him- or herself? It gets even trickier when you realize that it’s not just you and your kid that have opinions on the subject but the general potty-ing public needs to have a say as well!
The constant battle with our children between safety and independence is a hot topic among my mom friends and I. It starts as soon as our wee ones discover their feet are good for more than just sucking on and culminates with our birds leaving the nest but there is a whole lot of gray (and gray-hair making) areas in between. And a major milestone is the public restroom/locker room. Being the overprotective type, I figured my boys would come with me until their voices changed. I realized what a bad plan that was when my then-4-year-old piped up loudly in a locker room, “Mommy? Why does that lady have no hair down there but that other lady does?”
As if using the gym locker room isn’t a harrowing enough experience for some women, now they had to listen to me trying to explain bikini waxing to a pre-schooler. Oy. The official policy at my old gym was that kids aged 7 and younger could go into the opposite gender locker room with their parent. Eight and up either needed to fight for one of the few family rooms or use the men’s locker room by themselves. The first problem is that 7-year-olds are plenty old enough to notice things and are plenty verbal. Not to mention that at 11 and 9, my two oldest boys definitely do not want to change in a family locker room with their sister and I. Plus, it really depends on the gym, the locker room itself and even the time of day. And so I keep waffling back and forth about what I will let them do.
There’s a strong case for erring on the side of caution. Horror stories of sexual abuse of unaccompanied children in bathrooms and locker rooms abound but everything from pants peeing to wardrobe malfunctions to getting locked in a stall to FIGHTING OVER A STINKING TOILET AT THE ZOO can go wrong. The possibilities are even worse for locker rooms, thanks to all the showering, changing and other nakedness going on in there. However there’s also the need to let our children exercise their budding independence and teach them how to be confident and not overly fearful. And also how to function politely in a society that frowns upon peeing in gutters.
It’s no surprise then that both experts and parents have wildly varying opinions. ”I hear about it from moms all the time,” said Nancy McBride, national safety director for the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, in an interview with abc.com. “They want their kids to have some independence, and on the other hand, they want them to be safe. It’s really a dilemma for a lot of parents.”
Cynthia Calkins Mercado, an associate professor of psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice,says parents need to keep perspective. “Most sex crimes against children — about 80 to 90 percent — are committed by relatives or acquaintances in homes, not strangers in public.”
McBride disagrees, saying that no child, at any age, should ever be alone in a public restroom or locker room, ”Any public venue that allows access and opportunity to sex offenders has a potential risk. A bathroom is more private. It ups the ante.”
Seeing as I’m sure this will happen to me again, what should I have done at the zoo? As a grown-up do you feel weird having little kids of the opposite gender watching you in the locker room? As a parent, what age do you let your kids go – do you make them go to the family room even if he’s 13 or do you let him go in the public bathroom but use it as an excuse to play a loud game of Marco Polo?
P.S. Sorry for all the kid-centric posts lately! I’m still gym-less (although I really appreciate all of your great suggestions for me!) which also means I don’t get my daily quota of adult conversation or gym adventures. Although I did do another park workout today and discovered that putting your back foot up on a swing (a TRX would work too) makes lunges infinitely more awesome. (And by awesome I mean your butt will feel like you stuck a nail in each cheek. You’re welcome.)
My gym has a policy of no children (of the opposite gender) over the age of three in the men’s and women’s locker rooms, so it’s not much of an issue. I have a boy who is 5, and I don’t pick him up from childcare until I’m completely ready to go. But I understand the need for safety. Depending on the store, I either let my son go in on his own and then stand there talking to him with my foot in the door, or I make him come in the women’s restroom with me. (He looooooves that: “But MOM! I’m a BIG BOY!) Maybe you could have your boys take turns? The oldest one supervises in the bathroom with one boy while you wait with the other and then the boy who hasn’t gone yet goes in? Sounds elaborate, but if it saves from wrestling on public restroom floors… Good luck!
You’re making a pretty good argument for not having segregated bathrooms in the first place.
No, really. Instead of a bathroom for people with a triangle and one for people with legs, you’d see one door to the urinals, one door to the stalls, and everyone uses whichever facility is most appropriate to their current needs. What would be so wrong with that?
It doesn’t help with the changing-room issue, but it would surely have helped you today.
Um… what would be wrong with asking , say, 9 year old girls to use the same bathroom with adult men? Really?
Provided they’re each in their own private cubicle behind a locked door, honestly, yes really. It’s no different to the situation where a cafe has a couple of individual cubicles without gender-specific signage. Presumably that mostly happens when space is limited, rather than for the convenience of parents out with their opposite-sex children, but it doesn’t seem to bother anyone.
Has any child ever been molested in a public bathroom while his mom is standing outside the door? Somehow I’m doubting it; I sure wouldn’t risk it if I was a perv.
As for your own particular kids, it sounds like they should no longer be allowed to go in at the same time.
My Y has a family restroom. 5 or younger allowed in the ladies room.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I’m no expert on sexual predators or anything, but my understanding is that 99.9% of the time, they go for crimes they can get away with. Molesting a child who’s there with his brothers in a public bathroom at a busy zoo, with mom standing right outside? There’s very little chance of getting away with that.
Totally agree. Also – it sounds like you did the best you could with the situation. Your kids are by far (in my opinion) old enough to not be using the woman’s bathroom, and to be honest, I’d find it odd if they did. Sounds exactly like what Naomi says – they shouldn’t be allowed to go in together anymore. But definitely don’t make them use the ladies room!
I saw horrifying security video footage of a little girl sitting in a cart in Wal-Mart get molested by a man walking by while her mom browsed at a nearby rack of clothing. It took about 5 or 6 seconds only, but he violated her that quickly. With her mom right there. I wouldn’t ever risk it if I thought there was even a .1% chance my kid could be abused by a predator. As for my 2 boys, the 3 year old always comes with me. My 8 year old is to use the men’s room in most situations but I make him whistle the whole time he’s in there so I know he’s OK. If he stops whistling you can bet I’m gonna yell out to him and bust in if I have to. Heaven forbid. He still uses the ladies room with me if we’re in a truck stop or rest stop though. But I don’t trust those places enough to ever even really stop at one…so it hasn’t come up in a while. I used to get weirded out by 5-9 yr old boys in a restroom with their mom, but now that I have my own I totally get it. I take no chances when it comes to sexual or physical abuse. None. As for your boys, Charlotte, may I suggest a cattle prod? Just kidding, but probably one at a time maybe doing the whistling thing would work. Kids. Uff Da!
Sorry to be a downer (and add to the worry), but there was an incident in a restroom at a rest stop in California a few years ago in which a mother let her young son go in by himself, stood near the entrance, and the boy was fatally stabbed. (apparently there were 2 entrances/exits, and the perp went out the other way.)
Because my son has autism, I still bring him with me into the ladies’ room if the men’s room has more than one stall/urinal. No one has ever commented, but I’m pretty sure that if I told them about his special needs, they’d understand. And of they didn’t, well, his safety comes first.
Boy did we struggle with this one! Especially when a rather creepy older lady (in the women’s restroom at Busch Gardens) told me how ‘pretty’ my son was and I’d better keep a close eye on him. Fun story though: my first gym had a policy of under five allowed in either and older only in appropriate gender locker rooms. But, after my senior class one day, as most of us were more or less naked, one of Those Moms marched in with her very embarrassed 12 year old behind her, went straight to her locker, got out a bottle of water, and marched back out. Except for the ladies in the showers, the room had gone SILENT and we were frozen in place totally shocked. One of my favorites broke the silence with: well, we turned that boy gay didn’t we?! It took us all forever to stop laughing (cuz we had to keep explaining it to those who had missed it). I miss those ladies and those classes. The wisdom and perspective I learned from them have really shaped my life.
best – comment – ever
I can appreciate the dilemma. As a non-parent, little kids in a locker room (of any gender) sometimes make me uncomfortable anyway, due to their lack of boundaries, i.e. commenting on people’s bodies, etc. I know that it is natural and innocent, but I don’t really enjoy being part of a kid’s teaching moment while half naked! Bathrooms are a bit different than locker rooms, as there is less public nudity. Really, the solution that makes parents, kids, and bystanders most comfortable is just to have more family bathrooms/changing areas and avoid the issue. If your kid is old enough to be mortified to be in a family bathroom/changing room, they’re most likely developmentally able to use the normal facilities and wait for you in an agreed upon location. The predator factor is really scary, but it is true that most kids are kidnapped/molested, etc. by someone known and trusted.
When my older son was little, there was a case on a campground in California where a 5-year-old boy was killed in a restroom while a relative was standing outside, waiting for him. That case has freaked me out forever. I remember nervously waiting outside restrooms for years when the older kid was small. I remember feeling relieved when he was finally older, and I didn’t feel so stressed anymore. Now the little one is 5 and it is starting all over…
My parents tried to solve this dilemma with the family locker rooms which were available to all genders regardless of age. It worked out fine because we were little and didn’t care who saw what and my parents could turn a blind eye when other parents were helping their kidlets change… until the day my mom walked in with my sister and there was an adult woman walking around stark naked. My mom said, “Um… you know men come in here, right? Including my husband?” Awkward.
How timely! I’ve just been mulling this over as we begin swimming lessons at a local gym. At public restrooms, I often open the door a crack and call in to my sons, “Is everything going all right? I’m right here outside the door if you need anything….” just to let any perv that might be in there know that I am right there and listening for my kids. Don’t know if that actually would deter someone with bad intentions but it helps me feel better!
Hmmm…all I can think of is send them in one at a time? I know it would take longer but they can’t fight with each other if there is only one of them 🙂
I don’t have kids yet but my mom still tells the story of when I was on swim team and the only exits from the pool complex at the hours I swam were through the gender-specific locker rooms. She was there with my brother who must have been about 7 and when the 3 of us went to leave he balked at going through the women’s locker room. There was a young teen boy on my team who was leaving at the same time so she asked if my brother could tag along with him. Of course he came out the other side without my brother and just shrugged when she asked him where my brother was. So my mom got to run through the locker room of changing men frantically looking for my brother, who had found a scale and was weighing himself repeatedly. After that he went through the women’s locker room with us.
It’s not something you think about too much pre-kids but that’s scary! (And btw, I for one don’t mind the kid-centric posts even being without them myself.)
SWING LUNGES.
You have given me an evil, evil addition to Crossfit.
I started sending my daughter into the restroom by herself when she was 4. She always had to go as we’re leaving a store with a cart full of groceries! So I’d stand right outside with her brother and our cart and if it took longer than a minute, I’d yell in there, “you okay?!” I have a lot of friends that are just way too uncomfortable with that, but children are different too; I doubt I’ll be sending my son into the restroom alone when he’s 4 as he is a good 12-18mo behind her at his age with maturity and impulse control. But when he does, if he’s taking too long or otherwise worrying me, I’ll go in there. I’d make an announcement, mom coming in! and then go.
I do not mind any gender of child in the bathroom as long as they are WELL BEHAVED. If they are not, I am very annoyed, no matter how old they are or if they’re girl or boy. That’s one of the things I didn’t like about the YMCA changing rooms. The kids would be screaming and running around. I didn’t have enough $$ to upgrade to the adults only fancy changing room, so I was stuck in that one. Well, then I started to see STUDENTS there (I’m an elem. school teacher) and realized I could not be changing with my current and future students! So now I go to Planet Fitness- no kids! Problem solved! But it was MY problem, mind you. I realize kids have every right to be in the YMCA changing rooms. 🙂
I agree with the idea of sending them one at a time to alleviate fighting. As for predators, my mom taught us YOUNG to 1st holler, “Get away from me, I don’t know you!” as loud as we could. And then she taught us how to punch a grown-up in the crotch. If that didn’t work, we were to hit and kick and do everything we could to inflict maximum damage, while still yelling “I don’t know you.”
My sister had to use it once when she was about 4 – not in a bathroom, but on the beach, when Mom was looking the other way. You bet your butt about 50 people came RUNNING.
We were also told that if we ever tried to yell it at my mom, she would kills us herself. 😉
I love it. I’ve taught my kids the same thing, right down to the “you don’t want to know what’ll happen if you try this on Mom…”. Just hope they never have to use it.
I have two boys. If they are being obnoxious to each other and I feel like the place is safe I send them in one at a time. If the place is at all sketchy I send them both in together and play Marco Polo. The Marco Polo thing drives them nuts and they tend to finish their business as quickly as possible.
They’ve both had lectures on stranger danger and what to do if an adult makes them uncomfortable.
When we were in France we ended up using a bathroom in a public park. When you left the bathroom, it sprayed down the inside of the bathroom with sanitizer before the next person visited. If you had that available during the Zoo Incident, I expect you could have stopped the fighting pretty quickly. As I frequently told my kids, then they would have had a reason to cry!
Seriously, I am sorry to hear you are having such interesting problems. As I recall, we started letting our kids go to the bathroom by themselves around the age of 7 or so. I don’t recall any major issues or fears at the time, but that was over 15 years ago and in a much smaller community. Our son did once have a fainting episode in a public bathroom when he was around 10, which was pretty frightening, but not really relevant. In that case, I would have preferred that someone had been in the bathroom with him, even a stranger.
Isn’t it amazing what kids can argue about. I have even had my adult kids argue in the backseat of the car about who was touching whom.
Good luck.
I struggled with that same issue for a long time. My boys and I often make long road trips by ourselves when my husband is deployed or TDY. Stopping at places like The Flying J or Luvs and letting them go into the men’s bathroom without me was scary!!! I can’t remember what age they were but I used to do like you did and just stand right outside the door waiting for them (and then I would make them stand right outside the door to the women’s restroom while I peed and washed my hands at lightening speed!).
Now, they are 12 & 14 and we will be taking another trip (just the 3 of us) next week – I don’t hover anymore but there is always a small part of me that is glad when everyone is safely back in the car!!!
Most places I go seem to have a general idea that if you’re old enough to go to the bathroom on your own at school (ie 5 or 6 years old) you are old enough to go on your own in public. I think my gym has a rule that say no older than 5 in the opposite gender’s locker room. I think it’s a pretty good rule. Bathrooms and even locker rooms are pretty safe places, and most of the time, you’re waiting right outside for them to come out.
I don’t know what the solution to this dilemma is, but I do think that any time you are concerned for your children’s safety or well-being, there is no reason for you to not burst into the men’s room and deal with it. I mean, it is just a bathroom! It’s private, not sacred, and emergencies take precedence over modesty.
Totally not a mom, but I gotta tell you the hilarious way this whole issue is avoided in most parts of China. (Quick back-story: I’ve been living in China for two years teaching English.) They use split pants, pants with a whole in the crotch, and the kids just squat outside in public. Most of the time kids will just squat right down on the sidewalk or their parents hold them up and all God’s gifts to them are hanging out while they do their business. It was probably the most jarring sight I ever beheld in China. I’ve even seen adults and older children duck to the side of the road with just bare coverage, yank down their pants, and find relief. It’s hilarious!
I definitely think about this one when my stepson and I are somewhere without his dad! My stepson is 9 and we let him go to the boy’s room alone, though I would have NO hesitation about charging in if I felt there was an issue. Thankfully kids are honest and typically announce ahead of time whether they need to do #1 or #2, so that helps determine how much time is appropriate for him to be in there.
It doesn’t bother me when women bring their sons into the restroom/locker room with them, as long as the kid is young and he’s not looking under my stall or obviously trying to see something he shouldn’t see.
At my gym, kids older than five need to use their gender-specific locker room or the family locker room.
I used to do criminal appeals, and it’s scary how many child molestation cases we got, but I have to say, very, very few were perpetrated by strangers. I’m afraid to say that most kids are molested by someone they know and someone the family trusts–usually a father figure. As far as crimes against children committed by strangers, I would be more concerned about sending a boy into a men’s bathroom than a girl into a women’s bathroom.
I take them into the disabled toilets/restrooms. I have a constant ‘justification’ dialogue going on in my head in preparation for the event that may occur should I walk out and find an indignant person in a wheelchair.
Also, why do Americans call the toilets restrooms? Are your toilets kitted out like lazy-boys? That would be sweeeeet. The upholstery would probably be a little gross but still comfortable.
Wait. No you call them ‘bathrooms’. My bad. Are there baths in your public restrooms? That would be pretty sweet too. Weird though.
I find the whole topic so depressing. Are kids really in more danger now than when we where kids or is our level of paranoia just getting out of control.
Okay so I read every single comment on this one because this is something I’ve though about a lot! I am not a parent (yet) and I’m fully aware that once a mother your child’s safety becomes your number one priority. But at the current moment, MY safety – and I’ll admit it, my comfort, is MY number one priority. My community rec center has a pool, well two actually a lane swimming pool and a more “family friendly” play one. Due to this, there are 3 change rooms, womens/mens/Family, the family room is HUGE, beautiful, twice the size of either of the individual gender rooms, and yet there are constantly women with their children, (of both genders) and of all ages, in the womens room. It is a small change room, basically a circle of lockers around some benches and I’m sorry, I know kids are curious and innocent but it’s hard enough for me to get the courage to put on a suit and go swim without having to face the jury of lurking children and their “curiosity”. I wish the staff would encourage the use of the family locker room when they see someone checking through with a bunch of little ones in tow. Personally I agree with the under 5 rule, check back with me when I have a 6 year old though, haha. 😉
honestly, it creeps me out to see boys much older than 3 in the women’s room. But what creeps me out most is when they’re in there because mom has to pee, so she ignores them while she does, and suddenly I have an eight-year-old boy poking his head under the stall divider between his mom and me, trying to start a conversation. That’s happened far more often than it should have. Please moms, if you’re gonna bring older boys in with you, just don’t be THAT mom.
My 11 yo son and his friend were offered cigarettes in a men’s restroom. Always scary when they are away from you.
Did you find a gym yet? I know you love group fitness classes… if you go to lesmills.com you can type in your zip code and find gyms close to you that offer their classes (Body pump, combat, attack, vive, flow, RPM and CXWorx)
Folks I am a truck driver an many time’s over the year’s when I use the restroom very young boys at the urnals with pan’s an underwear to there ankles with no dad or brother around.