Not making a good case for yourselves, outdoor worker-outers!
“BOCK! Bockbockbock!!” During a recent visit to Denver’s central park, my 6-year-old son amused himself (and everyone else) by chasing the geese while yelling this, proving by our poor grasp of animal noises that we have clearly not spent enough time studying Old McDonald Had a Farm. While the kids amused themselves with the wildlife, the trees and the trashcans – anything other than the playground equipment because why would we play on that? – I watched a group of fit ladies lunge, push-up and high-knee it around the lake. It was a sweltering sunny day and I was impressed with both their dedication and military-like precision. After their lunch-hour workout was complete, the one at the head of the line called out, “Good job, ladies! Same time Friday!” and they disbanded.
“What a great idea!” I thought before proceeding to think no more of it. But apparently I should have taken a picture (creeper alert!) because the park workout has suddenly become an endangered species. In today’s edition of Solving The Wrong Problem we have a story out of my (new) home state of Colorado. This month the city of Denver rolled out a plan to ban group workouts (of any size, per the sign!) in public spaces like parks. The reasoning is that there are so many fitness aficionados (in some areas of Colorado, the number of adults reporting more than 30 minutes of exercise per day tops 80%) that they overrun areas to the point where other people feel like they can’t use them.
There’s a problem when the kiddos can’t swing because all the swings are taken by their moms doing wobbly planks. (A fan-freaking-tastic move, by the way. You should totally try it. Put your hands on a swing. Hold a plank. Prepare to ice your bruised ego when you can’t hold it longer than it takes your kid to drop trou and pee on his brother because they were “playing tree.” Not that that has ever happened to me. Nope.) Plus there can be the noise of shouting boot camp instructors, music players and repetitive counting that will drive you nuts in its inability to ever go past 20. It’s bad enough you have to put up with other people in your space at the gym, but in a park you kind of expect people to let you enjoy nature in peace.
But isn’t this what public spaces are for, really? What’s the difference between a boot camp and a Ultimate Frisbee league? They both involve a lot of running, yelling and inappropriate man-shorts. Plus, there are plenty of obnoxious outdoor behaviors that have nothing to do with exercising: grilling, cigarette smoke, loud “makeout” sessions and out-of-control preschoolers on bikes, just to name a few. So while some people’s hobbies may include walking quietly around the lake or catching their toddler on the slide, others enjoy doing plyo jumps on the landscaping walls. It’s all good.
I’ll admit that having done many a park workout myself – both alone and with my Gym Buddies – I’m a bit biased. As long as people are considerate of each other and follow regular playground rules like sharing, taking turns, not fighting and not hocking loogies into the water fountain, I don’t see the problem. (Oh and while we’re talking playground etiquette, watch your own kids. I don’t want to have to kiss your kid’s boo boo because you stuck your earphones in and are running laps around the perimeter.)
But then there’s the money thing.
While most of the groups I’ve been a part of have been for free, apparently there is a booming outdoor-workout business where personal trainers and group fit instructors take their clients into the great outdoors to get their sweat (and sunburn) on. It’s a great way to get some fresh air. It’s also a great way to save a fortune on gym and equipment fees and licenses. Since the workouts generally take place on public property that means the trainers are making a profit while taxpayers pay to keep the grass the perfect height for push-ups (short enough to not be tickley but long enough to not be prickly!). Is it fair to make the public subsidize a fee-based Sunrise Yoga class? And does it matter if the class is something riskier like parkour or Crossfit rather than a mom-ercize stretch-n-stroll group?
Perhaps it just matters to whom the money is going. Is it only wrong if it’s run by a private individual? What about the similar community classes with the fees partly going back into the city coffers? And what about if it’s on federal land – do you have to pay taxes? And how much money are we talking, exactly? Apparently some people make enough doing these public workouts to make a living. The city of Denver, after thinking long and hard on this, decided they mostly want the for-profit programs out. People can “rent” public space and get a commercial license but according the Times article, the cost is so astronomical as to price any individual right out of the market. But as long as no money is exchanging hands or PayPals then you’re probably okay. Except where there are signs. Which is everywhere.
What do you think – should people be allowed to do group workouts in parks? Does it matter if it’s fee-based? have you ever participated in a group exercise class outdoors? Have you ever had a bad experience with someone else’s workout in a public space getting in your way?
I’ve done a workout in the park with a paid trainer and a group. It was a fun and refreshing workout.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with it as long as everyone is playing nice. If it encourages more people to be healthy I’m all for it. The cost of maintaining public space, that was probably going to be maintained anyway, is much cheaper than the public cost of obesity. Also, isn’t that what parks are for? To be used? I’d much rather see our public parks and spaces used for exercise classes than be ruined by things like the occupy movement (our local park still hasn’t fully recovered). Plus exercise groups might be prolific in some areas, but they are still family friendly. I’d rather my kids see that than the parents sitting there with a cigarette clouding the air.
I didn’t even think about the different occupy/protest things that happen in public spaces! So true about this: “The cost of maintaining public space, that was probably going to be maintained anyway” And this: “I’d rather my kids see that than the parents sitting there with a cigarette clouding the air.” YES!!!
Colorado might be a bit extreme (in a good way!)
I don’t think that there needs to be a fee for commercial vendors, but perhaps there should be other requirements. It makes sense that regular organized users (free or commercial) need to register with the state or city – parks should be used but they CAN be overused – and it should be the city’s prerogative to decide how much wear and tear the park can handle (which depends on how much they can spend on upkeep. Don’t like it? Pay more taxes and/or vote for someone who’ll invest more in/create more green spaces in your area).
And in case of commerical vendors I think there should be additional requirements to make sure that they and their clients are insured against injury etc. to make sure that they are serious and professional and to protect their clients.
You make a good point about the liability issues – I wonder if the city could get sued if someone got injured??
Exactly. (A) We live in a litigious society, and (B) maintaining parks isn’t free.
Costs associated with upkeep and litigation should not be borne by the city while enterprising trainers make a profit conducting business on someone else’s property. It’s not good business for anyone involved. I wouldn’t want someone running their business on my front yard, either. I’d love to have $0 facility overhead for my business too. But it doesn’t work that way. They need to rent the space and get the proper permit for allowed activities like everyone else.
Most of my workouts are in small groups outside. We work out in a waterfront park. We’re not near any apartments and our trainer’s not into the boot camp style screaming thing. There are several trainers doing similar workouts in the park at that time (the first workout starts at 6.15am and the last at 7.45), and only one occasionally uses a PA system. We all personally find him a bit obnoxious. I think in theory our trainer’s supposed to pay the city council for the right to use the park, but there’s never anyone else there at that time of the morning. We’re not disturbing anyone or getting in anyone’s way. Our city’s generally very supportive of outdoor fitness in any case.
Personally I love outdoor workouts, even at this time of the year, mid-winter, when it’s freezing cold and windy.
There is something particularly rejuvenating about outdoor workouts – trees are magic;)
I think in theory it’s fine but lack of respect and consideration is a huge problem here. For some reason workout groups and particularly instructors, seem to think that they have more right to public parks than kids and families. I believe there’s a petition in my area to have our local park declared exercise group free due to the noise, it’s surrounded by apartments who are all awoken at sunrise to the booming sounds of bootcamp, the trash, and safety. Kids have been knocked over by over-zealous sprinters. Kids don’t always recognise that an area is being used, they just wander right through. This gets really problematic if there are multiple groups there at once.
I believe that there’s also issues at dawn between the bootcampers and the Thai-Chi and Yoga groups. I think the council and the residents are just sick of the whole mess and it’s easier to just ban the lot.
How bad do I want to see the bootcamp/yoga/tai chi smackdown?!? I’m terrible but holy cats that sounds amazing. Also, good point about kids not being aware of all the goings on. My kids would totally walk through a bootcamp and not notice.
I think it is crazy to ban workouts in the park! In Sweden we have had them forever, although they were originally run by a large non-for-profit organization and free for all.
Today there are more private initiatives as well, but I cannot see that we would ever ban them. And I honestly do not think it would even be possible legally.
It sounds a bit scary to me, like something you can imagine China do, but not America.
Yeah, I think it probably would make a difference if they’ were free for everyone and anyone could do them, like you have in Sweden. Sweden sounds awesome!
we went through this in AUSTIN before I moved and it grew fairly vicious.
There were so so so many trainers however who completely monopolized park areas and would chastise the child and me for ‘interrupting’ boot camp.
(eyeroll)
Okay, that sounds awful – and I can see how it could get that way if people start feeling entitled to the use of a certain spot every day or whatever. Although I’m finding this disregard of children as people to be becoming rather endemic in society as a whole. It’s like we’re coming full circle back to the whole “children should be seen and not heard” Victorian era…
I am ashamed to say the only experience I have of outdoor group exercise was at all-inclusive resorts in the Carribean!!!
I love to exercise at the playground, using the structure, but I make sure I don’t get in the way of the children who want to play!
Hey, NEVER be ashamed of anything involving an all inclusive Carribean resort;) Ah, bring me next time…
I was a camper and later instructor for Operation Boot Camp which takes place solely outside in parks year round. I loved working out outside–bug bites, grass burns, dog poop and all. In my opinion there is something exhilarating about being outside in comparison to doing the same activities inside. Our camp was always at 5:45 am, so it never interfered with peak (soccer/baseball games, etc) park times. The one time there was a camp at 5:30pm we always made sure we steered clear the the major walking trails, playground, and high traffic sports fields. (There was only one session of that camp due to low enrollment not because of complaints from the afternoon crowd) There was room for everyone and I don’t see why CO can’t allow that. I mean, isn’t that what the parks are for? Enjoying the outdoors? Just because a group of people are doing squats and sprints does not mean they aren’t enjoying the outdoors.
My first reaction is a big WTF??? That sounds insane.
But maybe because I’ve never been to a park so overrun with group exercise classes it was a problem. Sounds like from comments above it does happen! (Hard to imagine there are many communities like that in the sedentary U.S.).
Even then, I would think rather than banning it would make more sense to set aside areas and allow for either first-come or a reservations system, however the heck they dole out baseball diamonds or barbecue pits or volleyball courts. Banning seems a little bizarre!
I like your reservation-type system! That’s a really good idea. It also makes me think there must be some kind of behind the scenes politics at work because there really are so many more options besides just banning them.
Strange! I’ve seen small workout groups in parks in Redwood City, Ca. and they seemed like a very nice thing. Maybe there is a way to divide up the available area?
Yeah, it does seem like there are a lot of other options they could have used
This doesn’t really surprise me. In my neck of the woods we have “passive parks” where they don’t allow any ball playing or running. The parks are usually small and are built to discourage running (hilly grassy area–think speed bumps with grass on them). They’re also in areas that aren’t really safe for ball throwing (surrounded by roads–the park is a green island). They are ok for walking or lounging. Though I avoid the grass in the one near me since the dog owners never pick up after their pets (super peeve of mine).
Interesting! I haven’t heard of those! (Or at least, haven’t heard them called as such – we do have some “greenbelts” that are just hilly grassy areas) That’s awful that yours has morphed into a big doggie dump area though:(
I think it’s a shame. We have a few local outdoor morning tai chi groups and some boot camp classes, but generally they are in the AM or later when there aren’t any kidlets out in the parks. If the groups are overunning the parks and they are all paid classes for profit then why not make arrangements for it only being on a few days of the week then? It would be more respectful for the greenspaces and make sure the classes were a bit more legit. Maybe institute a fee for the instructors who wish to do so? There has to be a way around it.
I do like to train outdoors and think it would be fun to do an outdoor class, but then again there are so many greenspaces where I live that it has not been an issue. I suppose I should be grateful for that.
True – perhaps the solutoin is increasing the greenspace rather than limiting the use? Although that goes back to the “who’s paying” question… So glad that you are enjoying outdoor workouts! I think trees are magical:)
I guess if there is a problem then the city is obliged to do something about it. Where I live bridal parties register to use portions of different parks to take pictures, sports teams register to use field space and different areas are designated for different uses. It seems like these groups should have the same option. Actually we have a bit of a picnicking problem with paths being blocked and garbage. It seems like you can never have enough garbage cans, parking spaces and public washrooms.
That’s crazy. Perhaps they can come up with some rules instead of completely banning exercise groups. And sure, if the group is a for-profit outfit, then they should be required to pay for a permit. In my neighborhood we have a big park that has a path about 1.5 miles around. I wonder if running groups would be considered exercise groups? Or what if we just want to meet at a park and then stretch out in the grass after a run? Would that be banned? That’s really awful in my opinion. I’d be mad if it were my local parks. I’m surprised that the people of Colorado would support that.
I think that if it is a public park anyone should be able to use it however they like!!
I’m a big fan of the park boot-camps!!
This summer I’ve used our swim beach to teach a boot camp class – the swim beach if for members only and we pay a yearly fee for it and the lake but we can have guest. Yes, I charge for my class (not a lot) because I spend a lot of time prepping for it!!! So far it has been awesome working out there – no one has complained because we go first thing in the morning before anyone else is out!
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I used to attend outdoor bootcamp classes in the local park by my parents house 1 hour north of Manhattan. I adored it- something about sweating outside felt so much better than being trapped in a gym with fluorescent lighting.
As a personal trainer and fitness instructor now living in Manhattan I would love to teach an outdoor bootcamp in one of the great nyc parks. I find in NYC bootcamps usually take class during the wee hours of the morning when no one else cares that you are taking up park space or in central park where space is abundant. Whenever I get a chance to take an outdoor bootcamp class I love love love it.
I’ve never done a park workout (except walking), but I think it’s fabulous that people do. It seems totally extreme of the city to pretty much ban this option. If it’s really, truly out-of-control, maybe people should have to sign up for space of something, but ban it?? I agree that parks are for outdoor activity of all kinds, so this seems really crazy, especially in a culture in which this is apparently (and wonderfully!) so mainstream.
The outdoor workouts I’ve seen have always been very aware/respectful of playgrounds, dog runs, etc. If they were going to use the playground equipment, they would schedule those workouts for times when kids were less likely to be there.
I think there has to be a way for everyone to use public spaces and to be respectful. Especially in Colorado, where being active outdoors is such an integral part of daily life.
I agree with the others who have said, Let’s have some rules instead of an outright ban. I can’t support banning physical activity from public parks! That’s crazy talk. But in the interests of accommodating everyone – perhaps restricting group classes to specific areas, noise restrictions, maybe curfews, not being allowed to use the playground, etc.
Even the Occupy protesters had to have permits. And they really did destroy the parks and areas they camped in. I like the blended solutions of requiring the bootcamps to have permits or pay a usage fee (most leagues do). It would protect the city for liability, give them a little income and help them regulate heavy use times. I also can’t imagine waking up to a trainer yelling over a loud speaker, so that could be regulated as well.
Mostly, the ban just makes me want to organize a yoga flash mob. You could put the call out, then post the exercises on YouTube or a blog at the time of the event. No one yelling, no one saying anything, just folks plugged into their earbuds and phones, meditating a bit.
Well, there goes some of my business! I began using a local park a few years ago at a group’s request. It has grown to a great group and we have great workouts. We also make sure we do not disturb neighbors and are not in the way of children and playtime. We have now moved to another indoor/outdoor space, but I miss the park. I would hate to have to give up outdoor space as an option!
I don’t see a problem with charging a user fee to the trainers who want to use the parks for their classes. This would take care of any extra maintenance issues and keep the numbers somewhat reasonable. There’s a park here in Indianapolis that did that for photographers. I guess it was so overrun with people getting their pictures done there that they instituted an annual fee. The photographer who does our family portraits loves it.
I’ve held more than a few of these outdoor boot camps myself and I always feel a little self conscious when I’m hosting a big group. Most folks are fine with it, but I even get strange looks from folks when I’m working out on a playground and that’s just me. Imagine having 15 people doing it.
I know in VT it wasn’t an issue because no one really ever went to the park or played outside much, but here in Denver it’s a different story. I’ve certainly showed up to workout at a playground and decided against it because of all of the people there.
Maybe this will inspire more adult style playgrounds like Thomskins Square park in NY. We could use more of those for sure.
I’ve taken part in outdoor Crossfit classes, and find I enjoy exercising outdoors soooo much more than inside. I think it can actually be quite difficult for fitness instructors to have an economically sustainable business running an indoor gym unless they use that annoying model of trying to get many people to sign up for monthly autodebit memberships, and then hoping they don’t actually show up very often… I think it is great that instructors, coaches, etc can teach classes without the huge overhead of needing to rent and furnish an indoor space. Some reasonable registration/usage fee would probably make sense for such small business people, although pricing them out of the opportunity to earn some money by helping people stay healthy isn’t a good idea.
As long as the instructor is being responsible and not obnoxious (no PAs, music on portable speakers not too loud, using an open space and not the tiny green space next to the playground, etc.) group exercise in the park is a good thing. Perhaps having groups register for a designated space to make sure they weren’t taking over would be better than banning it all-out. Perhaps a small license fee for those charging clients, but nothing more than the park would charge for renting space for a party or similar event.
We have this here too – in the LA area. Honest, I get it. Although it is great to get out for those group workouts, other people want to use the space too & if you have a large group of let’s say boot campers taking up all the space when you just want to go out & enjoy OR do your own workout.. Trainers have to pay to train in a gym OR in their own facility & here, they are creating issues with the area & upkeep so I am kinda with more what we have here is to get them to pay for a permit.
I live in San Diego and we have a HUGE outdoor fitness culture. There are tons and tons of outdoor bootcamps and/or trainers available for all work out styles. Many are free (can be found easily through meetup.com) and many are paid classes. Our parks do require that the instructors have permits and a reserved time and section of the park available for their use. This goes towards maintenance, establishes rules for use, and provides restrictions on where the group can congregate (i.e. not on the playground, or only on the playground before 9am, etc.). I have no issue with the permit requirements (for groups, not individuals!) because I think it will help enforce proper behavior (not ripping out the lawn/loud music) and will help ensure that classes are being run by licensed trainers and not “wanna-be” trainers to increase safety. Long story short – I don’t think park workouts should be banned – they are too much fun!
I have participated in a boot camp free workout at several parks and I have been in parks where they were doing park workouts n such and they never got in my way or my child’s way. Its a free park people… the government needs to stop taxing and taking away public places as they are just looking to get more money for all the debt that the US has accumulated due to our glorious government. I think the public parks are called public for a reason and should not be subject to kick out people because of working out.. if they do that then there should be no dogs chasing balls or freesbie games or birthday parties or any fun at parks at all. sorry just feel very strong about it. the gov is taking everything from us one thing at a time. dont let them take our free outdoor fun away!!!
I don’t see a problem with working out at the park, but if they truly have a problem with it why doesn’t the city charge the instructors and limit them to a certain space, kinda like how you rent out a gazebo for a party. That way their not in anyone’s way and they are paying for the space.
Holy S**t balls!! As an exercise physiologist-in-training (someone who can safely exercise people with chronic or complex medical conditions; including but not limited to: joint replacement, cancer, diabetes, depression, obesity, heart disease) all I can say is – with the number of people over the world dying from diseases that could be avoided if people did more exercise, the idea that anyone would BAN something that is actually enabling people to be fit and healthy in an enjoyable way, seems like madness. However you need to work it with permits or taxes, do it – rather than just put signs up, because my GOSH – we need MORE people, not less, exercising!
I’m gone to say to my little brother, that he should also go to see this webpage on regular basis to take updated from most up-to-date gossip.
Laughter Yoga Outlawed in Cheesman Park (and essentially all others!)
This is no Laughing Matter!
For 9 years the free, NO-fee based Laughter Yoga Club (5-20 members) has been meeting in Cheesman Park once a week for an hour during the summer until these new Denver Park and Recreation regulations have declared us a “commercial activity.”
Park rangers cited us last week for our “unlawful” behavior!
Now we can no longer laugh together in Cheesman and would have to pay several hundred dollars for insurance and apply for a permit to possibly move to another park. Laughter Yoga doesn’t collect dues/fees but does provide services for free (this is the P&R’s definition of a commercial activity), so this essentially shuts us down.
Do not meet in city parks to laugh together on any regular basis–it’s against the law!
Karen
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