My favorite boys!
(Backstory: One on the right just won a trophy for his Pikachu pinewood derby car and the one on the left is having a meltdown because he didn’t win anything. It’s tough being the second child. Of course the third kid, on the far left, cared about nothing but the cake.)
Controversy is Chris Brown’s middle name. The rapper is a master of taking a bad situation and spinning it to look even worse. (Everyone remember the time he beat the crap out of then-girlfriend Rihanna? And then got a tattoo of her battered face on his neck?? Okay, good.) To say I’m not a fan would be an understatement. But this past week he gave an interview that made my heart break for him. He told The Guardian that he “lost his virginity” when he was eight years old to a 14- or 15- year old girl. (Not even going to put the full quote here as it kinda makes me want to barf. Feel free to click through to read it though.)
Brown seemed to see it as an accomplishment, evidence of his ultimate studliness I guess. Many media reports centered on that aspect as well. But for me, the only thing I could think was that he didn’t “lose his virginity”, he was raped as a child. And unfortunately rape for boys can bear an even greater stigma than rape for girls, leading them to report it less, hide it longer and even to try to reframe it, as Brown did, as some kind of weird sexcapade where they aren’t the victim. Except 8-year-olds can’t consent. The end. Which is why it was so baffling to me to read article after article where they challenged the truth of his story, minimized it with an eyeroll, snickered about karma or even congratulated him. Just because he’s not a sympathetic victim doesn’t mean he’s not a victim. Boys can be victims too.
Before I had Jelly Bean, I was a Mom of Boys. Birthing three boys in three years made me an expert in Thomas the Train, the various types of pirate swords and the exact moment when wrestling crosses the line from fun to fratricide. (It’s a very distinctive shriek.) It also made me an expert in how society views “boys just being boys.” This was a pretty eye opening experience for me as, being a girl, duh, I’d spent the majority of my life up to that point thinking about how society views girls.
It started early with a stranger at the park telling my son not to cry when he fell because he was a “big boy and boys don’t cry.” After that, there was criticism for letting my son have a “pink party” for his 4th birthday (it was his favorite color!), letting another son buy a Nerf gun with his birthday money (it does not mean he’s going to grow up to be a serial killer!) and potty training another by letting him pee on a tree in our backyard (in hindsight that one may not have been the most brilliant plan). It all culminated when my boys started school. I remember one meeting with a well-meaning but clueless teacher who insisted my son was ADHD and needed to be medicated as I kept insisting that his behavior was quite normal for little boys as they learn by movement. I left in tears, sobbing to my husband that it wasn’t fair that typical classroom protocol is geared towards girls’ strengths and that boys are vilified for doing what boys at that age naturally do. (You can argue with me in the comments on this point if you wish but it’s pretty well documented. Check out “Raising Cain” for a good read on the subject.)
It was in that moment I realized that I was going to have be an advocate for my boys through their entire school career – because no one else was going to. I know that sounds dramatic (me? never!) but I’ve spent the better part of a decade doing just that. And the kid with supposed ADHD? We had him repeat Kindergarten because he was very young for his grade and also immature for his age and that next year, he did wonderfully. It wasn’t a disease that needed to medicated out of him, it was him needing more time for his body to catch up to his mind – a developmental occurrence that seems to happen more often in boys than in girls. True, I don’t know if that scenario would have played out differently if he were a girl but judging from my daughter, who at three can already sit still longer than her next oldest brother at seven, I don’t think the issue would have even come up.
Now I don’t want to be “that mom” who thinks her little darlings are perfect and lets her boys go through life doing whatever destructive thing their hearts desire. All our kids must abide by the same rules of civility and decorum. I also think that the world is still very much a “man’s world” which is why I’m trying very hard to teach them now how to be respectful of women and kind to everyone. But there’s a difference between teaching boys they need to be careful with their power and teaching them that they’re bad simply because they’re boys.
Obviously I get a little defensive when people make assumptions about my boys simply based on their gender. And it was with all this history that I went into a conversation with another mom at school the other day. Her daughter is in Jelly Bean’s preschool and the girls wanted to play together so we were trying to arrange a playdate. Then she dropped this bomb on me: “We have a no brothers policy.” – explaining that Jelly Bean would have to play at her house because her daughter was not allowed to play at houses with boys in them.
How is this not fun?!
I’ll admit it: My immediate reaction was anger – don’t make my sweet boys into criminals! (Who are only 11-, 9- and 7-years old after all!) If we tell boys that they’re dangerous simply because they’re boys they’ll either hate themselves or it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And what does that say to Jelly Bean? That she should fear her brothers? But then I felt sad. Clearly the mom has had a bad experience in the past that has really scarred her.
I wasn’t sure what to do about my playdate dilemma (and all my mixed feelings) so I put it up on Facebook. 85 extremely passionate comments later I’m still processing it all. Apparently this idea of boys and how they should be treated as they develop into men is a very sensitive subject. The comments seemed to fall in one of three categories:
1. Ditch the playdate because the mom obviously has issues that at best make her rude and at worst make her a man-hating harpy who will mess up Jelly Bean. There may also be something hinky going on at her house. You don’t need the drama.
2. Ask her for more information and then based on her answer, decide which course of action feels right. Some added the suggestion to meet in a neutral place like the park where we could both supervise our kids playing and get to know each other better.
3. Be sensitive to the mom’s wishes because she obviously has her reasons and statistically speaking more crimes are committed by males. After all, the little girl and Jelly Bean could simply play while all her brothers are at school, right?(I was also amazed at how many commenters in this category admitted to having the same policy or a similar “no male caretakers” rule for their kids. Some pointed out that it was as much to protect their husbands/sons from false accusations as it was to protect their kids from being molested by others.)
And then there were the dozens of private messages I got from people who didn’t want to post about their childhood abuse on my public FB wall but still wanted me to know how the woman’s policy made perfect sense from their perspective. I even heard from a friend who works at a women’s prison and she shared how her job has changed how she looks at men and what decisions she makes for her own young daughter. It’s a scary world we live in.
It’s true – I worry far more about protecting her from sexual violence than I do my boys.
I appreciated every single person’s perspective because honestly I hadn’t put a lot of thought into this before and clearly it elicits deep feelings in a lot of people. I had started in a place of sheer defensiveness and needed to come to a place of understanding. In the end I realized that it comes down to risk assessment and mitigation. It’s a scary enough topic for a woman thinking just of herself – how many times have you or I had to make the calculation between riding an elevator with a strange man or taking the dark stairs in a parking garage? And I realized that as much as I hated hearing her say it out loud, I too have made the same decision under other circumstances. It was just last week after all when I wrote about having a bad experience with a male yoga teacher and then never having gone to another yoga class taught by a man since. I didn’t even know them and yet I was afraid of them simply because of their gender.
But how much risk one can handle become infinitely more difficult when it comes to your precious kiddos. At that realization, my anger melted away as quickly as it had lit up. So I decided to go with option #2. The next time I ran into her, she brought up the playdate and again suggested her house. So I casually (I hope – my “casual” can often come off as twitchy weirdo) asked her why. And she said what in retrospect is the only thing she really could have said: “Well you can never be too safe!”
Except that you can. I know first hand how worry, when left unchecked, can lock you into your own tiny prison. Sure, no one can hurt you in there but at the same time no one can love you or help you either. And you can’t see the bright sun in the blue sky without all the bars getting in the way. I’ve learned the hard way that taking risks, especially when it comes to other people, can be a beautiful thing – even if it sometimes takes pain to get there. Even though I’ve had the misfortune, especially as a survivor of sexual assault, to come across some evil, awful or just inconsiderate men in my lifetime, I’ve had the privilege to know so many more good, honest, brave, kind and gentle men. My dad. My husband. My brother. My sons. All are not just good people, they’re some of the best people I know. And they’re not amazing in spite of being men, they’re amazing, in part, because they are men.
But ultimately none of that is important in this case. In the end the only thing that mattered was that this was her rule. This was her line in the sand. This was her protecting her daughter the best way she knew how. And not only are her reasons for it not my business, it’s also not my job to talk her out of it. Her choice is not my choice but that doesn’t make it less valid. The only question left was if I can live with her rule.
Honestly I’m still not sure. Part of me wants to defend my boys – and innocent little boys everywhere – on principle. Boys are not bad because they’re boys. It’s true there is still so much discrimination against women in the world but that doesn’t mean that discriminating against boys will make that right. It just means everyone loses. But on the other hand, I have a lot more compassion for this mom and, as a mom of a girl myself, what she’s facing in a world where 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. I think, in all honesty, there’s too much in my head now surrounding this subject for me to make a clear decision. I don’t feel good about any of it. I hate that I’m in this position of choosing between my boys and my girl. I hate that it even has to be a choice – why does it have to be one at the expense of the other?
What would you do about the preschool playdate situation? What is/was the rule in your families? What do you think about Chris Brown’s interview??
1…2…3… NOBODY SMILE.
I would refuse the play date all together. While I agree that this mom is doing what she feels is best for her daughter, I don’t think that it’s best for your daughter to have a friend who cannot come and play at her house, who couldn’t come to her birthday party all because of a fear of your boys. How would you explain to Jelly Bean about why her friend can’t come over? You don’t have to let another person’s anxieties affect your child.
I think Jelly Bean is young enough that this kind of thing doesn’t really bother her… yet. But it’s a good point about not taking on other peoples’ anxieties.
As a mom of two boys and a friend of two very traumatized women who have a very hard time sustaining relationships just because their mom was overprotective and wary of any males I have to say the topic is very touchy. Just last month I had a house guest for several days – a teenage girl at the worst possible period of her life when she as breasts and thinks about boys and sex with One direction 24/7. After this quite unpleasant experience when I heard her teasing my boys and telling them how “older males” (aged 21) had “wood” or “stiffy” for her or any other suggestive terms for erection, I announced to my family that the girl will not be welcome in our home until her puberty is over. My boys are 9 and 8 years old. That is the age for beyblades, bakugans, max steel toys and legos, not overly zealous teenage girls.
While I do think that mom with her no boys policy goes a bit too far (she could settle this without even framing it like that – she could have said that it’s hard for her to watch over so many children so she would prefer just Jelly Bean), if I think long and hard enough, I can understand her. And I don’t think she needs to be punished or taught a lesson, or preached to. Also, I think it is soooo much nicer for a little girl to sometimes play with other little girls without the cumbersome, overbearing, rough presence of little boys.
I will however say that I have NEVER seen a dress worn more beautifully than in the penultimate picture. Really. I look at pictures with dresses – and not one of them looks prettier and sweeter, and more feminine than you in that green dress and those fabulous boots. You are irresistible.
Yes it does seem like there would be other ways for her to handle her anxiety but we all are who we are, right? I agree about it being easier for the little girls to play among themselves but generally my boys don’t play with the little girls anyhow so it’s not usually an issue. And thank you so much for the sweet compliment! You totally made my whole day!!!
I’ve never heard of people doing this. I personally find it nauseating that someone could make such an exclusionary rule relegating boys to the “be afraid of” basket ? What does the mother tells her daughter about boys ? Does she play with the boys at school or avoid them ? How is that poor child ever going to learn how to interact with half the population if she isn’t exposed to them ? That poor little girl. It’s not like they’re teenagers and you’re discussing a sleep-over party.
Maybe because I’m not a mother I’m missing something, but can you imagine if she’d said the same thing about race ?
The Chris Brown article was horrible. I can’t believe it was published. I don’t like him, and I don’t excuse him for his choices, but finding out he was raped at 8 years old gives a bit of perspective, especially considering how the media are downplaying it, calling him a liar or making out he’s a hero. If he were a girl the reaction would be very different, and it shouldn’t be. The reaction to *any* child being raped at 8 should be shock, horror and outrage with help given to the victim, regardless of gender.
This: “The reaction to *any* child being raped at 8 should be shock, horror and outrage with help given to the victim, regardless of gender.” YES, yes, yes. And I’m honestly not sure how the other mom deals with all those other situations. I don’t know her very well… which is apparently a big part of the prob!
Yes, it is a very, very touchy subject. I have a six year old daughter, and have myself been sexually abused both in childhood and in my teenage years and ended up having complex post-traumatic stress disorder and complete and utter lack of trust in any male who was not a member of my immediate family. This has only gotten better in the past couple of years, thanks to a very professional trauma therapist, so I pretty much spent more that 30 of my 40 years in fear and terror of most males and it took a very long time for my husband to manage to get through my barriers. HOWEVER, I would never say that my daughter can not play with boys. Nor would I say she can not have a male caretaker, there have been some in her kindergarten and playschool and while I do admit it makes me a little queasy, I also acknowledge that this is because of what happened to me and it has nothing to do with these males in particular. I do recognize that I am extremely protective of her, which is understandable, but even with my background, I cannot justify my restricting her friends to just girls. So she has friends both girls and boys. She has been taught basic safety rules concerning strangers, as well as what kind of behavior is acceptable both from her and from others. What she has not been taught is that a particular group of human beings is inherently bad because of their gender, even though I myself thought like that for the most of my life. Living like that was not easy, and it did not keep me safe. I do not want my daughter to live like that. Maybe you could indeed get her to have the playdate in a playground or something, and get to know her a little better, talk to her. Maybe she too could still learn that even though it’s bad the way things are in this world these days, that is not the way to deal with it.
And sorry for the lengthy comment…:)
I think this was a very measured response, and pretty much what I would say. 🙂
Very well said Pia! And I am so sorry to hear about your previous abuse. I’m so glad you’ve built a good life for yourself and feel safe now:)
As a mother of two boys and a woman with two brothers… I’m speechless (and that’s saying something.) I really can’t imagine prohibiting exposure to boys… Perhaps she has a traumatic history and I feel for her, but really… that’s just so extreme. I really feel for the little girl. To be so shielded from boys… how strange.
The photos of your family are delightful!
Thank you Stephanie! I think they’re pretty delightful too;)
Well, as a nonparent I have NO idea how you folks balance all the competing concerns between safety and openness and common sense…
I just know that due to the demographics of our neighborhood growing up, most of my afterschool playtime (completely unsupervised back in those days) was spent with boys, both younger and older, and nothing tragic occurred. Had my mom had a similar rule I would have been home bickering with my sisters and would probably be even more bossy and antisocial than I am now! I would think that raising little girls to feel empowered to speak up and assert themselves and let their parents know if anyone around them is acting creepy might add a degree of safety to mixed gender situations, but then again, I’m not a parent.
Yeah, I played with a LOT of boys growing up too with no untoward effects. I have a lot of fond memories of playing kick the can and building forts with the neighborhood crew.
The real issue should not be whether your children are male or female, it should be about proper supervision. As Diana’s post illustrates, you can’t assume that everything is peachy-keen if the other child/teen/parent is female. I think every interaction with a new family should be monitored closely until everybody gets to know everybody else a bit better.
So very true about supervision being the key. I totally agree!
I gave my 2 cents on the FB post, but I’ll reiterate my main points here:
I would reject that policy and not allow the playdate, myself. I wouldn’t do it meanly or cruelly, but I would express that I can’t be a party to teaching my daughter that boys/men are bad people simply because they are boys/men.
As I said on the FB thread, I don’t have a child, but I do have a boyfriend who is the single parent of a daughter. He has shared custody and his daughter and her friends spend as much time as his house as they do at her mom’s. I can only imagine how angry/hurt/bitter he’d feel if his daughter was not allowed to play with their friends at his home, or he was not allowed to have them come work on their school projects at his home, or he was not allowed to take a group of girls out for pizza … simply because he possesses a penis.
I wonder how some of these women who have what appears to be a “no penis” policy handle divorced parents, single dads, stay-at-home dads, or any of the other family variations of our day and age. Let’s not even talk about same-sex parents where both of the couple are men – are they not allowed to have children over to play with their children at all?
I respect that some people have had traumatic experiences in the past and I don’t discount their feelings at all. I have my own traumatic experiences as the victim of non-sexual abuse and alcohol and we all have our biases and prejudices. But part of raising healthy, well-adjusted children is NOT segregating them from half the population and teaching them (directly or indirectly) that “boys are bad/girls are good”.
True, with the ever changing nature of families and lots more “non traditional” situations, policies like hers will definitely take some re-thinking. I’m honestly not sure how she handles other situations like you described as I don’t know her all that well… which is part o the problem, I think.
I have been thinking about this ever since you posted on FB about it. I am really glad that you wrote a follow up. I am a mom of two boys and am infuriated by her response. What if she had suddenly found herself pregnant with *gasp* a boy? What if you had a rule that her husband could not be home while your daughter played there? My 5 year old son has lots of friends that are girls. The last girl that we had over for a playdate (also 5) tried every which way to get my son to go down to the basement to play doctor. She didn’t think I could hear her. My sweet innocent son came up to me with his little toy hammer and said “mom! Baylor and I are going to play doctor!” Because I insisted that they stay up in the living room where I could keep an eye on them, suddenly she had no interest in that game. My point is, we all have to keep a close watch on our kiddos regardless of gender. Not only is she making assumptions about your darling boys, but also about you as a parent. I would just stay away from the play date altogether and hope that her daughter doesn’t grow up to have a completely warped concept of men.
Excellent point about supervision being the important thing! And lots of people asked what she would do if she had a boy… not gonna lie, kind of wanted to ask her myself;)
I’m afraid I fall into the camp of avoiding this woman and her nonsense. I am sure she thinks she has a good reason for keeping her daughter away from all boys/men, but she is demonizing half the population and what purpose will it serve? Does she really want to raise her daughter to be fearful of every man she encounters? And what of the girl’s father? Is he in the picture? Does the child have cousins, uncles, etc? I’m curious about how she handles the male members of her daughter’s classes in school or church.
How sad that the woman fails to realize the harm she may do. Short-sighted to say the least.
I honestly don’t know if the girl has brothers/a father/males relatives. It does seem like there are other approaches to accomplish the same goal of keeping her daughter safe. But, like I said, I’m not her and therefore I’ll accept what decisions she makes for her life…
So, I’m not a parent, and I definitely don’t know the particulars of this situation or the exact conversation that took place, but after reading all of the comments, I’m wondering more about what was motivating her “no boys allowed” policy. I mean, we all kind of assume she has this rule in place because she thinks that boys are dangerous (which would be the logical assumption based on her comments). But after reading Diana and Christina’s comments, I’m wondering if this mother might be worried about how her daughter would behave around these boys.
I mean, I’m sure her daughter is great and can be trusted and all (I am NOT trying to imply that she’s thinks her daughter would be a hussy or anything!), but there can potentially be different dynamics between girl-girl friendships and girl-boy friendships, even at that age (not necessarily better or worse dynamics, but different). This mother might not think of boys as inherently dangerous at all, but may just worry about her daughter developing those kind of relationships at this point. Were that the case, then if she had a son instead of a daughter, I wouldn’t be surprised by a “no girls allowed” policy in place instead.
I could be completely off base, but I think that may be a potential, less infuriating/insulting interpretation of her concerns.
Granted, I still wouldn’t agree with her in either case. Growing up, all of my friends were boys until I hit elementary school, and it wasn’t until I was 13 that I had my first “Girls Only” birthday party (which was about the time a lot of my classmates were having their first co-ed birthday parties).
Then again, she could also just be over-worried about the literal danger of little boys. They do tend to run around a little more and have a bit more energy. As a child, I had more little boys trip over me when I was playing dolls than I would have liked. And they certainly coerced me into climbing more trees than any of my friends that were girls did at the time. Again, I’d disagree with her, because I think that was good for me, but who knows?
This is an excellent point and a perspective I hadn’t really considered although it makes a lot of sense. Like I wrote though, in the end, her reasons don’t necessarily matter to me as I will be respectful of her choice. But you’re right – who knows, really??
Shouldn’t we be teaching our children how to watch for danger signs/dangerous people instead of teaching them that all people (or males) are dangerous?
I also agree with you about Chris Brown. 8 years old? Are you freaking kidding me? Geez, no wonder he’s so messed up.
So true. Education and supervision can help prevent a lot of bad situations.
I’m a mom to seven – two girls and five boys. I am so incredibly tired of people classifying boys as evil/bad/disrespectful/dangerous/etc. based on their gender.
This is all part of a media driven directive to demasculinize men and defeminize women. I’m not one to put people into stereotypes and believe in embracing our natural differences and celebrating every child’s individuality. Don’t put anyone in a box.
I can’t tell you what to do but I’ll tell you what I’d do. I’d tell her, “Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. Without good experiences with boys as a young child and later as a young woman she will likely grow up with a skewed perception of how awesome boys can be.”
After all, without decent, strong, respectful boys in this world, who are the “perfect” girls going to marry?
Love your perspective, Laura! And your last sentence totally made me laugh. Where were you when I was talking to her and at a total loss for words?!?
I can’t remember if I commeted or not on the FB post becasue I ahd a viceral resopnse, and I think I needed to reel it in a little. I think there is some post-traumatic reasons why people would reat that way, but all in all, we should be able to give people a chance, especially children. I have seen, and in my childhood been surrounded by, agressive, almsot if not really abusive little girls/teenagers as much if not more than boys. And all the stories of “hazing” I hear in school sports, make me really sacared for my kids. boy and girl. doens’t matter, this society is scary. Would I let my daughter play with the firend, at her house? not sure, probably not because I think I would be insulted for my boy (unless he showed signs of being problematic…ten I would get help if I could).
((hugs)) Good point about the PTSD aspect. We really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes with anyone unless they choose to let us in:)
My gut says just say no to the playdate. As someone commented earlier, I think my response would be that I cannot be a party to teaching my daughter that boys are evil. That said, I only have boys so my perspective may be skewed.
I also, however, am a domestic violence survivor and while my abuser was male and I am perhaps more cautious of random men (especially of those with personality traits/ facial features/ postures similar to my ex), I cannot lump an entire gender into a negative category. I know many wonderful men including my father, my now-husband, and my son… who also share half their genetic makeup with my abuser.
Bottom line: I think this mother should reconsider her stance and the message it’s sending her daughter. Without the ability to form healthy relationships with the opposite gender, she will stand even less chance know what an unhealthy relationship looks like.
THIS: ” Without the ability to form healthy relationships with the opposite gender, she will stand even less chance know what an unhealthy relationship looks like.” is brilliant. Thank you.
@Jenny C – I’m kind of curious about this:
“but there can potentially be different dynamics between girl-girl friendships and girl-boy friendships, even at that age (not necessarily better or worse dynamics, but different). This mother might not think of boys as inherently dangerous at all, but may just worry about her daughter developing those kind of relationships at this point.”
Is there a specific age when it’s more appropriate to be friends with the opposite sex? I’m a little baffled by that. I have a younger brother (3 years younger) and I’ve always had a mix of boy and girl friends. Even as an adult I have an equal number of male friends to female friends (and not just male friends who are friends as a part of a couple, but males who are friends). I can’t imagine there being an inappropriate time to begin developing friendships and social skills with both sexes.
I can’t speak to Jenny C’s meaning (as I’m not her) but what occurred to me is that while I don’t think there is an inapropriate time to begin developing healthy relationships of all types, I do think sometimes kids can be on totally different levels which can make it hard to relate to each other. For instance, my son and his girl cousin are the same age and growing up they’ve always been best buds but this last year they’ve kind of grown apart as she seems to be maturing (in all senses) faster than he is. Nothing wrong but it does change the dynamic…
I don’t think that this mother meant to be rude. I think that the only way to treat this situation is to show sincere love for her. By turning down the playdate, nothing is accomplished. But by letting your daughter play with her daughter, hopefully the mother will not be so overprotective by seeing your boys with you and listen to you describe their cute perks (as you do to us on this blog) and will learn to embrace the boys and the girls.
I don’t think she meant to be rude either. Like I wrote, my initial bad reaction (which I kept in my own head in the moment!) was mostly due to the long history I have with people maligning my boys for being normal little boys. And I agree that kindness is always the best route. A park playdate is looking better and better…
I’d be more worried about my 8yrs+ daughter going to a friend’s house with 10+yo brothers. If I felt that an adult was going to take their eyes off of my 2-4yo long enough for sexual assault to occur, I wouldn’t want my kid going over there period.
I’d probably ditch it altogether because I’d feel I have better things to do with my time than try to understand irrationality. (PS, I don’t have a lot of friends LOL).
There is a part of me that wants to just write it off as too much emotional work right now. I’m already exhausted thinking about it all and we’ve not even had another conversation about it lol! Of course, I am a notorious over-thinker;)
If there are plenty of other friends, I don’t think I’d put much effort into figuring out play dates with this one. Meeting at the park seems like the best option.
I’m not sure I’d actually say it, but I’d want to tell the other mom, that while I understand her concern for protecting her daughter, that you are concerned about also protecting your children, and sending a message that they are inherently dangerous because they are boys is disturbing to you. Then suggest meeting at the park.
I’d personally be a little nervous about what my daughter would pick up while playing at a house that is so fear based. I think were I the mom of the daughter, I’d have the same rule I have now. My kids don’t play at houses of people I don’t know. That means that if they meet a new friend, they play here, or I come with them and visit with the mom a few times until I’m comfortable with them, or we meet at the park. It’s worked out well so far.
I say you can have all the empathy in the world for this woman’s issues but they don’t have to become yours or your daughter’s issues. Personally the whole idea of playdates as my son ages terrifies me a little because I will have to trust random people to watch my son and how can I really trust them to keep him safe? I can think of a million what-if scenarios that make me want to have a hard and fast rule that he can have friends over but can’t go to their houses. But I know that is not reasonable, and also what you said: “I know first hand how worry, when left unchecked, can lock you into your own tiny prison. Sure, no one can hurt you in there but at the same time no one can love you or help you either. And you can’t see the bright sun in the blue sky without all the bars getting in the way.”
Full disclosure; been harassed, stalked, raped etc. in shitty relationships with men, seen friends & neighbours in the same. have a brother, daughter & lovely BF.
I do not discount fear as a stupid advisor. I think that sometimes fear can be very healthy. Men do commit crimes 9 times more than women. Schödingers rapist is simply good advise.
I do try to not to let that get into the way of my parenting. Because my daughter missed out on an good active & involved father i made sure she got to see loads of good & kind men, fearfull & nailbiting though i might be, i also made sure she saw her biological grantparents & the rest of her family.
Abuse of boys is underestimated in my opinion, almost all of the guys that abused me or others have been abused themselves. This is absolutely NO excuse, because i also know guys who did not take it out on others.
The best thing to do is teach children to love & respect their own bodies.
No means no, _even in tickling._
Nobody is entiteld to hugs & kisses, not even gram.
And your yoni* is yours & nobody may touch it exept mummy in helping you wash yourself when your little & the docter when your sick & mummy is present & you say yes.
Sex education is sooooo much more than “the talk” and starts when they are babies by not only naming those lovely toes & chubby cheecks, but EVERYthing inbetween.
*(sorry to all persons named Yoni/Joni, only later thought about that & came across the word vulva, which is also a nice name for it. My language usually says kut, which really doesn’t sound nice or vagina, which is way to clinical for a 2 year old)
I do want to call a little bit of bullshit on “boys being boys”.
I’ve been trained as a teacher and i’ve seen parents do the most stupid stuff.
For instance letting boys run wild, while girls were made to sit & behave. This has also been scientiffically proven, boys get *way* more leeway then girls.
Something about those pretty dresses i think.
When i calmed boys who had fallen, by saying that they had a fall, a quick inspection for wounds (show me your hands, can you move them?) & talking to them that they really had a big fall & that it probably hurt (tearfull nod of yes) & then bringing them to a parent because mum or dad could kiss it better. I cannot recall how often they have been blown of. Boys don’t cry indeed. No, we probably want to make emotionless bastards out of them. Coincidentally, the above method is almost foolproof in dealing with ordinary falls, children feel seen & heard & merilly skip off to play again. No exessive crying, no bribing with icecream. Just _being there_ for a talk, but that’s too much for some parents apparently.
Also the shit about not letting boys play with dolls or pink stuff, that would make them gay?!? *facepalm*
A boy was merrily playing in his play kitchen making all kinds of food & providing for the girl who was playing right next to him with knex/construction toys. His mum came and angrily & forcefully dragged him away, because boys don’t play with thát. Also the girl wasn’t a good girl for playing with the “boys toys”.
Daughter played with both boys & girls. A mum to boys remarked to me that she was a “funny letter” for being soooo jumpy & happy all the time. Her school wanted to put her on medication for ADD. I put my foot down, after testing it was that she really hated school because it was boooooring. Her iq was very high. Adjustments were made and some of the problems were gone, but it was quite late. A boy which she used to play with was put a class higher & gotten alternative material. Boys are alowed to shine, to brag. She acted like she didn’t know things, because the rest of the class didn’t know them, so she was the freak one out.
I wouldn’t know what to say to that lady. Me being curious would want to find out, so the park play date sounds nice. Hope you can work things out, she can become less fearfull. Because i don’t think fear is bad, but it does suck to be afraid.
greetings (^.^)
I don’t have a a daughter but I don’t think this is the sort of friendship I’d pursue regardless. You don’t even know her and she is already showing signs of being a major control freak which of course stems from fear. I’d be polite or friendly but I’d set my own boundaries about the depths of relationship I’d be willing to pursue and set up play dates at the park. Depending on the person (assuming she seems like an understanding person), I might also explain politely that her fear of boys makes me uncomfortable. Their are so many stereotypes of boys/men that get under my skin.
Well I just don’t know what to say…No. I do. You say “Well, brothers are part of the package with Jellybean and they come along wherever I go…Would you maybe want to meet up at a park? That way the girls could play together, the boys can run off some energy, too, and you and I can chat while we supervise…” If she objects to that, drop it. It’s not worth the drama. Also, prepare yourself for one of the boys to do some flying ninja trick and accidently kick the other little girl in the head, or something to that effect. That’s what would happen to us. “My boys are sweet, loving, tender children. You don’t have to worry…JOE! STOP CARTWHEELING INTO THAT LITTLE GIRL! PLEASE WATCH WHERE YOU’RE GOING!” *facepalm*
I love boys; I have three of the best. Four, if you count my hubby. And as for all girls being sweetness and light, there is one in our neighborhood who told my oldest son to go down our basement and kill himself. Yep. No lie. Alllll sweetness and light. And really, really messed up crap. Good luck, Charlotte. Let us know the outcome ,won’t you?
Reading this made me ragey and then very sad. I was almost through the post before I realized she is worried about her daughter being molested. I don’t know how she’ll manage this in the real world without going private for school and severely restricting her child’s activities. How could her daughter even go to a birthday party?
While my boy can be a crazy wild man with a penchant for bad jokes that only he laughs at, he goes where I go. And he’s had play dates with girls and my daughter has had play dates with boys and we gravitate towards families with multiple kids so we can throw them all together. If someone flat out told me that her daughter isn’t allowed at my house because my daughter has a brother, I’m pretty sure that family has issues that my family doesn’t need to be involved in.
Does Jellybean go to part time or full time preschool? Because I’m assuming that you probably could have had the preschool play date while the boys are at school. And the mom could have suggested a daytime play date without getting into the whole no brothers thing.
And, I’m rambling now, is it just older brothers or younger too? If you had a two year old boy, would that be a deal breaker?
Speaking straight from statistics, a child is much more likely to be molested by a family member than a stranger. I have to wonder if the mother keeps her daughter away from uncles, grandfathers, male cousins, etc. and if so, that makes me so incredibly sad.
The closest case of sexual abuse I know about was on a boy, by a man. I really think more parents should be aware of that possibility. Our preconceptions lead us to overprotect girls, underprotect boys, demonize boys, etc.
I am careful with sleepovers, but I am more relaxed with playdates.
I believe in giving tools to my daughters rather than keeping them home and away from males at all times.
One’s opinion and feelings on this topic are certainly related to their own experience. If you were never a victim or never witnessed anything, you are probably more laid-back than someone who has had a bad experience.
I would tell the other mom that the rule means the kids will need to play at the park or other public places. Just like I wouldn’t want my child (esp. at JB’s age) to spend time in a house with other rules that I didn’t feel were appropriate for him/her..
The other mom explained her rules honestly and obviously was willing to stick to them even knowing they might be unpopular with you. The nice thing about that is it gives you the room to do the same without worrying. I’d much rather deal with that than a parent who invites your kid over but then is always “busy” when you invite them to your house.
So interesting because this kind of “rule” would never have occurred to me, even as a mother of two girls. Yet, we had a little girl over for a play date a while back and I was out and about – my lovely husband was there to answer the door for pick-up. First words out of the other mother’s mouth were (as reported by hubby), “Where’s Robin?”
Truthfully, it ticked me off. I read it as: Why does mother = caretaker. Now I’m wondering now if it were more about what you write about here. Upon reflection, still ticks me off. Feels like a judgement of my husband AND furthermore, would I marry/adopt children with a man I don’t trust with children? Seriously?
I have a somewhat similar challenge that makes me sad and frustrated. My wonderful husband chose to become a stay at home dad when our daughter was three. He says that it is the best job he’s ever had, bless his heart. He’s a great dad and really enjoys being the stay at home parent. But over the years, we have had many a parent not agree to play dates (either at our house or at all) because they aren’t comfortable with him being the supervising parent or just find the whole thing awkward to arrange. Which means my little girl doesn’t get as much of those opportunities as other little girls for play dates.
I live in Canada, and moved here from Russia a few years ago. Compared to situation in Russia, I think the Western society has made a huge leap in protecting women’s rights and empowering them. I think that feminization overall created much more favourable environment for women but also, I think it created a lot of negative stereotyping around men that makes raising boys nowadays more challenging. I married to an absolutely wonderful and unique man, and ultimate gentelmen (I think for the most part his type is extinct nowadays) but the way of communicating in his family at first was a bit of a shock to me. He has a sister who is a very strong woman, and her attitude in life is “girls rule, boys drool”. It’s not that she is against men, or would ever make a “no brothers policy” – quite opposite, she is okay with her girls playing with boys, and she is teaching them how to behave with boys, and what to do/what not to do (she has 3 daughters). But her general attitude is to always make fun of men and “keep them in line” to the extent that I am finding her comments offensive to her husband or to my husband (yet, they seem to be okay with this, and often just make a joke in response). By now I am more used to this style of communication, I see it at work all the time as well – it’s almost a norm to make fun of guys. I have not found my ground on this yet, and if I had a son I think I would find it challenging to teach him self-respect and being a good human when society is constantly trying to put men down.
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