This is Robyn Lawley:
She’s stunningly gorgeous (obviously). She’s a model (no surprise there). She’s an advocate for body positivity (yay!). Oh, and she’s “plus sized.” (Wait, what??)
It’s been said so many times that it’s nearly become rote in conversations about fashion but I think it bears repeating that plus-sized models are not plus-sized in the real world. (Which I know but SERIOUSLY? Her??) But that’s where the simplicity ends. Over the past year or so a war of semantics has started over how exactly do we describe the size of our bodies and what do those words even mean?
Some stores simply call sizes that go beyond a 14 “Women’s” sizes which is troubling since the definition of “woman” is more about what’s in your pants than what size they are. Other places call them “extended” sizes which is descriptive but pretty clinical (and also makes me think of toddler pants with the elastic size adjusters inside the waist). “Curvy” is bandied about quite a bit but I hear a lot of girls who self-identify as curvy – big boobs and hips with a tiny waist – take offense when catalogs or stores use it as code for plus sized. Similar to “curvy” is “diva” which has strangely transitioned from entitled pop star to sassy larger lady. Also, there’s the fairly recent and very PC “differently sized.” And then there’s “goddess size” which one plus-size writer described as “so far past the line that I would actually be less embarrassed buying a dress sized ‘oink’. ”
It gets even more confusing when stores make up their own sizing systems. Just read the reviews on Target’s plus-sized section to find out how much people love their random 1 – 4 sizes. (Hint: They love it like they love getting trampled on Black Friday.) Then there’s all the X’ed L business – apparently a XXXL is smaller than a 3X because…Roman numerals? Then there’s the specialty stores. One friend who typically wears a size 24 snarked that wearing a size 6 in Lane Bryant only makes her feel like she’s bad at math. And speaking of Lane Bryant, the company recently announced that they’re changing from a “plus-size store” to a “her size store”. Great, now we’ve narrowed it down from noun to pronoun – that should clear everything right up! (Although I do appreciate the sentiment.)
Lawley recently did an interview with Ellen about the crapstorm the Internet rained down on her for not having a “thigh gap” in a lingerie picture she posted. At first she was just going to let it roll off her beautiful back but then she decided she needed to make a statement for all the young girls who might be worried about thigh gaps. (Side note: I love it when people talk about needing to love our bodies and show a good example for “young girls” but I honestly wish they’d just include all of us. I’m a grown woman and I still struggle. Let’s be good examples for everyone – young and young at heart!)
Anyhow, Lawley told Ellen – to much applause – “I love my body and I’m comfortable with that.” She added that it’s kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: “The more I say I love my body, it actually works. It makes a positive rebound effect and then you start loving your body.”
But my favorite thing she said was when she un-defined plus-size: “To be honest a ‘plus size’ should just be a ‘model’ and they should put more, different sizes, different ages on the catwalks.” And she puts her money where her mouth is. She recently launched her own swimwear line (pictured above, and heaven help me I detest animal prints but I totally want that one-piece in the center) and nowhere that I could see on her site does she say anything about “plus size” or “curvy” or anything. It’s just “swimwear.” As it should be.
Contrast Lawley’s interview with this interview (click through to see videos) with the director of the Ms. Venezuela pageant. For everyone who thinks the words we use don’t matter or think that the conflict is isolated to the rarified world of modeling, this video is an excellent example of what happens when we believe the hype and the devastating effects as it filters down through society. (Warning for some slightly graphic content and also mass amounts of rage-inducing douchebaggery.)
The problems go from the bottom up as well, as demonstrated by supermodel Doutzen Kroes’ recent comment to Page Six, “Sometimes it makes me feel guilty now that I am in this profession that makes certain girls insecure. I always say, I don’t look like the picture . . . If you put me in bad light with no hair and makeup, it’s not good . . . I wake up sometimes like, this is not what I see when I look at the magazine, who is this visitor in the bathroom?” She added that she “wouldn’t expect” normal girls to do what she does in the way of diet and exercise. Which means she basically labelled herself as “not normal.” Which I can’t decide if that is sadly honest or honestly sad.
Not being plus-sized myself, I feel a little weird writing about this – like perhaps I shouldn’t speak about matters with which I have no experience. I once wrote a post on here about fat activism that I thought was very positive but I got destroyed on message boards for “flaunting my thin privilege”. It was a valuable learning experience and I’ve tried to be more sensitive since then. It really made me realize how much I don’t know about what I don’t know. So it’s not my intent to offend or hurt anyone and if I have I hope you’ll take the time to educate me in the comments!
In the end I decided to go ahead with this post because I feel like this issue of what words we use to describe our bodies and others’ bodies – particularly those we find aspirational (who wouldn’t want to look Lawley?!) – is universal to being a woman in our society and it does deeply affect all (many?) of us. No matter what we look like or what size we are, we’re never good enough. We always need “fixing.” And I think the first step in combating this is by how we talk about people who are of all sizes. I like Lawley’s idea of making no “others” – we’re all just women.
Or maybe we just need to leave it up to each woman how she wants to define herself? As I was mulling over this post, I asked a plus-sized friend what term she preferred or if she preferred no term at all and she answered, “I’m fat and proud of it. Call me fat. There’s nothing wrong with the word unless you make it wrong. I wouldn’t want to be anything other than what I am!” Brilliant girl.
What’s your opinion on what “plus sized” should be called? Or should there be no label at all? If you’re out shopping (or in, online!) does the name or type of sizing affect whether or not you buy it? Have you ever had a weird plus-size shopping experience??
I’m not “plus-sized” myself either, but I happen to be of a shape that basically doesn’t exist in the minds of clothes designers. Think empire, think no discernible waist, add short legs and long back. I once entered my bust-waist-hip ratio in an online service that promised to recommend the most fitting model of trousers from their catalogue based on my numbers. I got told that I don’t exist. Nothing in their supposedly something-for-everyone range fits a smallish/medium person who’s not bee-shaped. Also, there is not a non-stretch skirt in the whole world that fits me, it seems. So I’m not “normal” – but I’m definitely not “curvy” either. I exist outside size charts, and I can’t be the only one. My take on the issue? There’s no normal. Just acknowledge my existence without labels and I’ll be a loyal customer forever.
The only thing that is mildly annoying about sizing to me is that NONE of it is the same. I’m not plus sized, but I definitely do not wear the same size in every store! So when someone asks me what size I am, I need to ask: What store? Women’s or juniors? Oh, and sizes have gotten MUCH bigger. I used to wear a large t-shirt in the juniors section (which is a great place to buy cheap little camisoles, etc), but now I wear a small or a medium. My size has NOT changed. But the size/label of the the clothes has!
So, if I’m not “her-sized,” then what am I? ‘Cause I’m pretty sure I’m not a “his.”
I know there won’t be a backlash to Lane Bryant like there was to Lululemon, but really, I don’t like the implication that I’m less of a woman because I don’t wear a double digit size. Sizes are supposed to standard across the industry to facilitate shopping. I don’t need coddled with vanity sizes or lovey-dovey terms (and I say this as someone who was once plus-sized). I want to go into a store, get a pair of pants, and get out.
I always feel like I am out of place writing about such topics too since I have always been genetically thin and it’s just how it is. But I think the model above is gorgeous and looks quite healthy compared to so many other models that look sickly skinny!
Well, I have had weight issues my whole life. I just recalled to a friend the other day why I have shopping traumas after buying “husky” pants for school when I was a young girl. I remember crying in the dressing room because I had to buy boy’s jeans. It was embarrassing to not be able to wear the same clothes and styles as the other girls in school. But, it was not enough of a motivator to get me to change. I’m now over 40 years old and I’m finally doing something about my size in a healthy, sustainable way. I’ve lost 50 lbs and can now wear a standard size 12. That being said, it didn’t really matter to me what the stores/manufacturers called the larger “plus-sized” clothing. The cutesy names don’t determine whether or not I buy the clothes. I bought clothes based on the same criteria I use now…Does it fit? Is it made of nice, wearable fabric? Will it last? Does it flatter even my fat behind as well as can be expected? Those things were (and still are) more important to me than the name or description.
To start, just have sizes. Put them all in the same sections (Women’s, Men’s, Junior’s, Boys’, Girls”, etc).
Of course, as others have said, it would REALLY help if the clothes actually, y’know, FIT. This isn’t an issue of size but of shape. Designers make clothes for the “ideal” body of the moment. And every style in every brand is different. We are not mannequins. We look like what we look like, and there is a vast array of shapes out there. I refuse to go under the knife, regardless of what Cranky McDouchebag from Venezuela thinks. And BTW, since we’re judging physical appearance, has anyone told him that he looks like a walking, orange corpse? He may want to look in the mirror before judging other people. He might also consider extensive therapy. And heart surgery, because he’s obviously lacking one. And, WHY, exactly, are we still letting MEN decide what female beauty is? Why are we letting anyone besides ourselves judge our worth? (This is something I’m still struggling with, at 44.)
“I refuse to go under the knife . . .”
Nor is there any reason to when it is much cheaper and easier to put your clothes under the knife. Some of us guys have to tailor our clothes if they’re going to fit worth a damn as well. That’s the way it is when you buy off the rack, which, by economic necessity, must be something close to the mean.
A mass manufacturer cannot make things just for you. Your seamstress can. That’s the way it works.
“WHY, exactly, are we still letting MEN decide what female beauty is?”
Oh, that’s an easy one. For exactly the same reason that it is women who decide what male beauty is. For the same reason that buyers tell the manufacturers what car styles they find attractive.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That’s the way it works. You can’t tell someone what to find attractive, nevermind demand it. There is, of course, no particular restriction on making yourself happy.
“Why are we letting anyone besides ourselves judge our worth?”
That one’s a bit harder (and you might want to think about why you suddenly made your looks your worth), but I’m going to go with lack of self esteem, so long as it is tempered with a healthy dose of reality.
And the simple reality is that to other people, male or female, you are worth to them what you bring to them. You apply that rule yourself, because . . . that’s the way it works.
Seamstresses and tailors are priceless . Unfortunately, they can also be prohibitively expensive. Add to that the fact that most girls (and, increasingly, boys), get the message from a very young age that their bodies should fit the clothes, not the other way around.
As far as standards of beauty, they are not driven by the marketplace. Standards change with the times, and they’re often driven by the fashion and film industries. One decade the full-figured, curvy woman will be popular, and then skinny is in. (Marilyn Monroe wouldn’t stand a chance in today’s market, for example.) But the fact is, what we, as individuals are attracted to starts out being much more varied than the limited images shown to us in media. And, yes, that absolutely influences our culture. How many 35 + year-old women do we see in Hollywood films, for example? Or even on our local newscasts?
None of us CHOOSE to make our looks so important. Again, it is ingrained in us from childhood. Read some of the other posts here and you’ll see what I mean. It takes A LOT of work to overcome that. Too many girls and women are dismissed out of hand because of the way they look, despite the fact that they are capable, smart, funny, kind, etc. Just look at the way female politicians are written/reported about versus their male counterparts.
There are literally thousands of messages every day geared toward girls and women with the sole purpose of making them feel unworthy. Entire industries depend on our being unhappy with our appearance (Fashion, cosmetics, diet, etc). it is possible to move beyond those messages, but it is hardly easy.
I thought it hilarious that Mr. Venezuelan beauty pageant says all beauty is external. You’re right — his external is UGLY.
It’s a case of the outside matching the inside, sadly.
In a perfect world, no-one would label anyone according to size. But, since this is definitely not a perfect world, how about standardizing sizes so that if you wear a size 12, it is a size 12 EVERYWHERE!
And, regardless of what cutesy label they put on it, the Fat Lady stores (as those of us who actually shop there call them) will still and always be called just that. Euphemisms abound, but those of us who shop there (or have shopped there – I am no longer forced to, having lost enough to fit into “regular” sizes) are fully aware that we’re fat. If you wear a size 24, you know you’re fat. And, if you wear a size 16, you are constantly being TOLD you are fat. Sigh.
On a side note, if that lovely woman is considered plus size, then the world has gone insane. Of course, most people in the fashion industry are a little … out of touch with reality.
(I could go on a real rant right now, but I think I’ll just retreat back into my coffee cup – it’s obvious I haven’t had enough, since this comment is barely coherent, even to me!)
I’d love for more stores to carry plus sizes and drop the label. I remember going shopping with my two (skinny) sisters, years ago, and being frustrated to the point of tears that nothing in the stores they shopped at would fit me. I finally went into a plus size store, by myself, and bought my clothes there.
I’m now a size 12 and can fit the clothes of a lot of stores. (Don’t get me started, though, on how so many fashion trends are geared towards skinny bodies.) But I went winter jacket shopping a week or so ago, and when the largest size of a particular Roxy jacket only fit if I didn’t breath or move or wear actual winter clothing underneath, it brought back so many humiliating memories of my body apparently not being deserving of shopping in regular stores. (Gah, the shame. I’m getting better at it, but as you can see, it’s still an issue.)
Oh, and a friendly hint: transgender people might take issue at this sentence:
“Some stores simply call sizes that go beyond a 14 “Women’s” sizes which is troubling since the definition of “woman” is more about what’s in your pants than what size they are.”
I might be reading it wrong, but just wanted to bring it to your attention.
I agree!
As a fitness and a plus size fashion blogger (two things some people think are counter-intuitive), I understand the discussion but the comments that come out just make me really frustrated at our obsession over labeling a body size. Plus size was a distinction made because it’s a way to label clothes beyond a size 14- those sizes that for eternity have been disregarded by 99% of the fashion industry. Finding larger clothes without some sort of classification like “plus size” is impossible.
I manage communities where people get pissed that they’re called “plus size” because they’re a 14. Or “why am I seeing this plus size Facebook ad – I’m a size 2! This is gross!” It happens all.the.time. and I’m sick of it. It’s body shaming. Just as I wouldn’t shame someone for being thin, no one should shame or judge because they are bigger.
Think about how up in arms people get about models (all of them, not just plus size models) – “why can’t people show real women in ads?!” Um, those women are real women. They may look different than us, but that doesn’t discount that they’re women.
My thoughts are super unfocused right now because I have so much to say about this having spent my life since ate 14 between a size 14-34. I’ll try to distill and write something more eloquent later! / off soapbox
I would agree that all this nonsense of having to put a category on sizes has gotten ridiculous. I understand that brands are trying to be unique in finding different ways to sugar coat “fat sizes” but what’s the point? Leave the sizes alone, and stop sugar coating. if you’re a 2, cool, if you’re a 10, neat, if you’re an 18, great. There doesn’t need to be a category for your size. We might as well stamp “petite”, “average” or “some-fluffy-sugar-coated-fat-term” on our foreheads.
This whole thing drives me crazy about sizes. I was actually talking about it with my Mom last night. I was reading an article where a woman said when people asked her what size she wore, she would tell them that she wore anything from an 8 to a 16, depending on the designer. It’s incredibly true!
I can say, as someone who has recently lost weight on a journey to get healthier, that it some times will bother me that I’m still listed as “overweight” or “plus size”. It’s like, hell, I have literally worked my ass off and you can’t be bothered to put a size 10 or 12 in with the other sizes? I have to go searching for a Women’s department?! And don’t even get me started on trying to buy boots that go to the knee. So much blood, sweat and tears over that lifelong goal for me.
I really enjoyed this post, by the way. Thank you for sharing. 🙂
I really want people to stop beating around the bush and just number things. Consistently, please. I want a Size 10 in Old Navy to be the same thing as a Size 10 in JC Penney’s. Really. Please.
This crap about plus-sized or whatever needs to go. Just have a neutral number. “I wear a 10.” “I wear a 4.” Whatever. You wear what you wear.
In a magical world of rainbows and ponies, I’d have women’s clothes measured by waist, hip, and inseam, like guys’ are measured by waist and inseam, darnit. ><
AMEN!!
Yeah, I think a great first step would be having just sizes, no need for a special label for those over an arbitrary number. And consistent sizing, seriously! As someone pretty tall I’d love to go to a pants by measurement system the way men’s are.
I’m not “plus-sized” at the moment (though I have been before) but I was recently reminded how limited things get when you’re over a certain size. My mom and I were shopping for an outfit for her for my wedding and I wished she could have tried on every outfit in the stores. Luckily we found something that made her look and feel beautiful but it shouldn’t be that hard. It’s so ridiculous.
Also, some people need a reality check about what “plus-size” truly is, both in and outside the modeling world. I’m a very “normal” weight these days, work-out, eat well. I’m often on the edge of “plus-size” due to being tall and not having a model’s bone structure. It’s just a silly number. I don’t get worked up about sizes anymore.
It should be noted, for those not aware of the fact, that Robyn is 6’2″. She is a “big girl.”
I have been bigger (up to size 14 at the time) and didn’t want to go shopping at all. ALways had body issues but it was worse then (I am no w considered “small”)
My sister who is also on the bigger size rfuses to buy women’s pants, she shops in men’s becasue she can’t get passed the “bigger” women’s store. Makes her look less than feminine and the pants just don’t fit her woman’s body *they ARE men’s pants) and yet, she wil lnto step into one of those sotres because it would “confirm” she is bigger. Why can’t we (as some said) have all sizes available in all stores, period.
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One of the reasons that there are categories for size ranges is because of the manufacturing process. You make the sample pattern in a size that is in the middle of the range you want, and then you grade that middle-sized pattern up and down to get your range of sizes. The thing is, you can only grade up and down so many sizes, before the patterns on the extreme ends get too distorted to fit anybody. So to have a wider range of sizes, you have to do the process twice, starting with a mid-sized pattern in the misses range, and a mid-sized pattern in the women’s range (or whatever you want to label those categories). This is why many stores only cater to one category or another, it’s literally twice as much work to cater to both.
I’ve been sewing most of my clothes recently, and realized how much less I stress about my body shape in the process. I think it’s because in a store, I’ll see something I love, get excited about it, and then be all disappointed when my body is not the right shape to fit into the item of clothing like I want it to. When I’m sewing, I can get excited about the pattern or style and know that I can make it to be the shape I need it to be.
I saw Lawley on Ellen & loved her! This whole how we describe women & women see themselves started long ago & is perpetuated in the news, movies TV & more.. We need to find ways to help the young girls grow up without what we had instilled in us – not good in my personal experience.
I am not sure what the solutions is – even in Petite which is for shorter people & not necessarily not fat people – the sizes go up higher but are made for short people…
I wish I had the answer…
I think having a label for part of the women’s size chart is silly. Why can’t stores simply advertise that they carry sizes X-Y? As someone in the upper end of the women’s sizes, I do have to do my homework about which stores carry my size, but the ability to search online (especially ability to view size charts and filter by size) has made this so much easier. I also sure wish sizing was more consistent across brands.
I worked at CJBanks when I was in college and not plus-size. Customers sometimes got pissy at me, but like I pointed out we all need to try on clothes and some fit some don’t. I also learned that good fit makes a person look better not sizes.
Why does there have to be any distinction between smaller sizes and bigger sizes? Aren’t we all just people?
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Favorite Part:Side note: I love it when people talk about needing to love our bodies and show a good example for “young girls” but I honestly wish they’d just include all of us. I’m a grown woman and I still struggle. Let’s be good examples for everyone – young and young at heart!)
Never thought about that, yet so true. Myself included.
I’ve pretty much been straddling the line of “plus” and “regular” since I was around 15 or so. At an early age I came to the conclusion I am not shaped like the fit model. My thighs are bigger. My boobs are bigger. I have a smaller waist. Technically I am pretty close to being hourglass shaped no matter which end of the line I fall so basically clothing shopping is difficult. I’d love to be able to just show up at any store and get my size. These days I wear a 14 or 16, but I know there are plenty of stores and brands where I have no hope of fitting the pants, since they don’t go over my thighs. And other mainstream brands that carry 16+ don’t fit me at all since they are too big or don’t have enough waist definition. As a result, I have my list of brands that I consider go tos and call it a day.
Don’t get me started on the lack of cute workout clothing for people over size 14. As if if you are bigger you don’t work out or don’t want to look cute doing it.
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