When you put Barbie in a foosball table it just looks like they’re ready for their kickline…
While the Men Watch. The feminist in me really wants to hate this. But unfortunately I can’t hear her over the sound of my own laughter.
Before your mind (or Google) goes places your boss would not approve of, WTMW is an online show and blog described by creators Lena and Jules, saying:
“As two women married to sports fanatics, there was really no escaping hockey on TV – especially during playoffs. As our men were glued to the game, we were on the phone talking to each other about what we saw on the ice in a way that was completely different than what our guys or the real announcers were saying. Why were the players getting a seat and a drink in the penalty box if it’s supposed to be a punishment? And how exactly did that coach pick out a brown suit and tie combo four sizes too big?
After rigging up an audio stream from our living rooms, we started broadcasting our “girl talk” version of commentary on all the finer points of hockey, football, baseball, basketball and yes – even golf.”
My first reaction to hearing about a show that is based around the horrible stereotype that we womenfolk are too silly to wrap our wee brains around complex manly sports was to remember my scorn over that horribly pathetic “first pitch” (read: bounce, bounce, roll) thrown by Mariah Carey whilst bobbling in 6-inch heels. Not a proud moment for womankind. Or humankind. Of course lots of women not only enjoy watching sports but they also play them and are great at analyzing them! Why do we need a “girl talk” version of sportscasting? Jezebel.com certainly found it abhorrent, saying “How are we still stuck on the notion that when it comes to watching sports, women are clueless idiot children? This is insulting to not only women who genuinely care about the game, but to all the female sportscasters who have had to work twice as hard as their male peers to get half as much credit.”
Then I listened to the show. It’s hilarious. And it also really hit home. (Oooh – see that? I made a sports analogy right there!) I’m the girl who had row 12 tickets to one of the final playoff games between the Jazz and the Bulls in 199… whatever. See? I cared so little about that game I can’t even remember what year it was even though it was one of the biggest rivalries in basketball. My girlfriends and I chatted about if the cheerleaders spray-glued their uniforms to their boobs (likely), if the guys in front of us were hot (yes), and if we could rap all the lyrics to “Informer” by Snow (gratefully no since when I just Googled the lyrics I discovered the line “Where them whipped down me pants and looked up me bottom” – who let me listen to that?! Still though, it’s catchy. A licki boom boom down!). Do you see where this is going? I don’t even remember who won… probably because we left during half time to go get Chinese food.
I am the stereotype.
I lost no love for sports as a teen and it didn’t change when I became an adult. Just recently a friend asked me if I’d enrolled my boys in hockey – this is Minnesota, land of 10,000 concussions after all – and was taken aback by my bewildered response: “Why would I do that? I spent nine months growing those brains and I’m certainly not paying for the privilege of watching them get bashed in with a stick.” (I signed those kids up for show choir, by golly. Don’t you know that math and music are synaptically linked??) You may also recall that I didn’t learn the basic rules of basketball until about six months ago, could not now tell you how many people are on a soccer team and only know that lacrosse is the sport with the sticks because someone once used one to lock me in a bathroom. And the worst moment? Gym Buddy Allison and I couldn’t do the “baseball drill” in P90X because we couldn’t figure out which leg to step forward with to pantomime throwing an imaginary ball! And yet I can balance on one foot for seven minutes while simultaneously painting my toenails and blow drying my hair.
I’m embarrassed to be me right now. All that stands between me and Mariah Carey’s throw-like-a-girl moment is that I’m not famous enough for anyone to ask me to throw a first pitch for anything. And also, she can sing.
As a health and fitness writer I’ve come to realize all the amazing things about sports in general and girls in sports in particular. They build confidence! They encourage a positive body image, camaraderie, teamwork! They hone agility and endurance! They’re fantastic exercise (Gym Buddy Krista introduced me to the puketasticness of a “full court press” on Tuesday)! And, stop the press, they can even be really fun.
All of this girl-sport stuff has been colliding in my head recently as I have the (amazing) opportunity to interview and do a workout with the Minnesota Vikings cheerleaders, play my first game of rugby with an international competitor and interview/workout with the co-captain of the Minnesota Valkyries… our state lingerie football team. Honestly I’m not sure what to think about all this. I’m pretty sure the cheerleaders are going to kick my butt with their athleticism (while looking adorable – did you know they MUST wear red lipstick and tights during every workout?!). I’m more than a little nervous about rugby (I like my kneecaps where they are). And playing a “man’s sport” in lingerie?! Yet when I asked her about it, she said it was empowering. And hey, at least she knows the rules to football which is way more than I can say – the only football game I ever attended in college I read a book the whole time and made my husband swear to never take me in public again.
And if I’m being completely honest I’d read the book again. I want to love sports. But in reality I always wondered the same thing about the penalty box as Lena and Jules. If that were me, I’d purposely body check someone just so I could spend the rest of the game safely in that little box, wondering if I could make a magic eye puzzle out of the ref’s jersey. (Although, if it really were me someone would probably lock me in with their hockey stick. Sigh.)
Do I hate watching sports because I’ve been conditioned to by society or because I legitimately just don’t want to spend my time that way? What kind of woman are you when it comes to sports? What do you think of this show – funny or infantalizing? Are cheerleaders athletes? Is lingerie just a quirky sartorial choice, a subversive political statement or the epitome of catering to the male gaze?
I keep vascillating on this. I haven’t listened to it, but I think I would find it upsetting if I were watching my favorite show and my husband sat in the background making fun of it. This seems to be the flip side of what they are doing. This seems to be judging what each other likes to watch and I can’t see that being good. But part of me thinks we should all lighten up and learn to take a joke, I’m just not sure if this type of joke is helpful or hurtful.
I grew up in a house where both of my parents watched some football and all of the Olympic sports, we’d also go to baseball games occasionally. I did not however play sports (my parents tried in HS to force me, but it was a disaster). I still love to watch football and olympic sports. I will watch and enjoy soccer and hockey, but no matter how much I try, I cannot understand basketball.
My sister was a cheerleader in HS and she was basically a gymnast that also had to yell. I’ve never seen people work so hard for so little recognition. I don’t know that all cheerleaders have the same routine, but she was definitely an athlete.
“I think I would find it upsetting if I were watching my favorite show and my husband sat in the background making fun of it. ” I’m ashamed to say I didn’t even think of it from this perspective! You are so so right though. It does at times come off as little mocking. Although I will say that I think the women seem to denigrate themselves more than the sport … not that that’s necessarily better, lol
I’ve always hated sports. I think it started when my parents enrolled me in Little Athletics, I can’t run and it was horrendous ! It was cemented when my ex used to drag me to watch him playing sports 3 to 4 times per week. I was soooo bored ! He’d get really offended that I’d sit there and read. Once I broke up with him I swore I’d never go to another game ! I don’t know if you ESPN or whatever get’s cricket matches but there is nothing more boring than a game that goes from 3 to 5 days and most of the time the players are just standing around. Watching paint dry is more stimulating ! (I think most of Australia; England and Pakistan just declared war on me *lol*)
To be honest I don’t think I could watch a game of anything even with amusing commentary.
Glad I’m not the only one that gets so bored! I’ve never seen cricket but after this I don’t think I’ll be adding it to my must-do list!
I actually love watching sports! Especially when it comes to big international tournaments like the olympic games, where you get to see ‘unusual’ sports like curling, figure skating, taekwondo, platform diving, etc.
Soccer is the most popular sport (by far!) in my area, and while I don’t watch every single game, I do try to catch the important ones, including Euro or World Cup games. I really love the atmosphere, and I want to know what my (90% male!) coworkers are talking about during our coffee break.
So I often force my husband (who’s only mildly interested in boxing, martial arts, formula 1, and tennis) to watch sports on tv. He even watched last year’s NYC marathon with me! Well, only start and finish, not the entire thing. Bless his heart!
Ah good call on the Olympics! I love watching the Olympics. Although as I type this it occurs to me that I really only watch individual sports like swimming, gymnastics, diving and skating. I don’t think I’ve ever watched an Olympic game of basketball… Sometime you’ll have to explain Formula 1 to me – watching cars drive in a circle seems like one of those things that would be super fun if you were driving the car but kinda boring for everyone else.
Why do you feel like you NEED to like anything? Personal tastes are just that. Nobody should feel compelled to enjoy something because friends/family/society tells them to. I’m a fair-weather Lakers fan, living in Southern California. I’ll cheer them on if they win or if a favorite player does something fun, otherwise I ignore basketball. I’m the same way for international soccer. Not ashamed of liking or not liking anything at all. And don’t tell me how to feel towards anything, that’s just a classic case of reverse psychology where you will find me railing and screaming against it.
Ha good point! I feel like I should but it’s true – nobody should be compelled to like someone else’s hobby!
I understand sports and I sometimes watch them and enjoy them (not as much as many people do, though), but I can already tell you that I would love listening to that show. I often spend a large chunk of the time making fun of the things people wear and the silly things the players/coaches/commentators do. Yes, it definitely reinforces the gender stereotype that says women care more about the uniforms, but I also think pro sports could use a bit more of a sense of humor and some goofiness. People take it all so damn seriously, when really pro sports are kind of absurd. I mean, millions of people gather around to watch grown men in tight pants throw balls around and they take it as seriously as politics or religion. It’s just begging for some MST3K-ing.
This is one of those situations where I think that maybe a bit of the stereotyped behaviors that are so ruthlessly derided are not necessarily a bad thing. What’s more important, I think, is not automatically assuming that a woman is completely ignorant of the details of pro sports just because she’s a woman.
This: “I also think pro sports could use a bit more of a sense of humor and some goofiness. People take it all so damn seriously, when really pro sports are kind of absurd. I mean, millions of people gather around to watch grown men in tight pants throw balls around and they take it as seriously as politics or religion. It’s just begging for some MST3K-ing.” made me laugh so hard. Let’s watch a game together, please:)
Also! I hope you’ll let us know when we can read your story about the Vikings cheerleader/rugby player/LFL player. I’m super intrigued.
Oh of course! I think I’ll likely end up posting about the experiences here as well. I’m really excited to do these interviews – I’m interviewing a female MMA fighter today and going through her workout with her. Gonna be epic!
OMG! Who are you doing these assignments for and can I come with you pleeeeease?
ZZZZZzzzzz…..unless something amazing is happening, like a successful shot from across the court or a really spectacular kick in the crotch, I can’t get into watching sports at all. Maybe if they made the men play in lingerie, I’d watch for a few minutes.
For some reason this makes me a feel a lot better that you have similar feelings! And good point about dudes in lingerie!!
What a great discussion. I think it is all a mix of nature/nurture/personal preference. I can’t handle watching most “popular” sports. I don’t even really like playing most. I used to play softball in school, but that was boring even then; and watching baseball? Good grief what snooze. And boxing or the now ubiquitous MMA? I certainly don’t want to participate in or watch anything where I or someone else gets the crap beat out of them!! There are a few sports I will watch and I do like. Gymnastics, cycling, and some of the olympics. I do think Cheerleaders are really athletic, but I also think it is a kinda silly activity. But people do all kinds of silly things for fun and that I don’t think are fun. That is what makes the world go ’round. There are fanatics that know every little stat, and people who want to make fun of fanatics that know every little stat. See? It’s harmony.
Hahah it IS harmony! And I love this: “But people do all kinds of silly things for fun and that I don’t think are fun. That is what makes the world go ’round.” So true. I myself do quite a few silly things;)
I am clueless about sports because I am not interested. My Dad never watched sports. My husband doesn’t watch sports. We’re just not a sport-watching family. The exception being the Olympics – I usually find some of that interesting to watch.
I can’t really comment on cheerleaders, having never watched sports I’ve never really watched cheerleading either, but I suspect they do work pretty hard at what they do.
Sports. SNORE. I was blessed to be born in a family of girls with a Dad who had more important things to do than sit around and watch OTHER people having fun.
Luckily I then married a guy who was of the same mindset. (Unless it had a motor and went in a circle… oh the years of Nascar…)
I haven’t watched it yet, but it SOUNDS hysterical! Right up my alley. Once. I don’t like organized, team sports. I am TERRIBLE at stuff like that. But I do enjoy getting outside and riding my horse, paddling my kayak, riding my bike… now that is sports! (And I do like to watch the Olympics – there’s just something cool about rolling amazing talent, hard work and fierce patriotism all in one package.) Go Jamaican Bobsled Team! (grin) (I was born and raised in Calgary – love to watch that movie, if only for the glimpses of “home”…)
I don’t mind watching sports live, and enjoyed playing some as a kid, and would enjoy it now I think, if it was a rec team. I’m more of a hiker and walker than a organized sports player, if only because I don’t know a lot of the rules. If they had a learn to play for fun league, I’d be willng to try more sports now. I know that’s what intramurals or local rec leagues are supposed to be, but in my area people are waaaay to serious and always put the gurls in the outfield (grrrrr).
I just don’t buy into all the who plays for whom and who is out in front and winning the blah blah quarterlies…Watching a sport on TV (except for gymnastics and figure skating) just doesn’t interest me that much I’m afraid. I will leave the stats to someone else. Thankfully my husband isn’t into sports either so we are rather oblivious to a lot of organized pro sports.
Ooooooh, I’m SO conflicted over this! I think there needs to be room for both sides, but with everything going on right now in terms of women’s rights, I get antsy.
I watched a bit of lingerie football last season. And while I cringed at the outfits, I was also celebrating seeing women play football, and play it well. It also seemed that most of the fans were really into the game for, well, the game, at least as much as for the eye candy.
I don’t watch a lot of sports. I love going to baseball games, but don’t usually watch on TV. I think it may be because I get too nervous. It’s the same with game shows.
(It’s like what i recently told my mom: that the reason we don’t like NASCAR is because we’re Jewish. We’re the ones in the stands yelling “Slow down!!!!!”)
(I hope that doesn’t offend anyone! My sincere apologies if it does!)
Not being knowledgeable about sports doesn’t make a woman less of a person than a man, it just means that that particular woman probably has different interests. If someone tries to force themself to like something just because they don’t want to be “that stereotypical girl,” that’s just as bad as girls who purposely play up their bubbliness and damsel-in-distress-ness just to play into the stereotype.
I feel like femenism should be all about empowering women to be strong and confident in what they do, whether it be sports or baking (or whatever else), but instead, it keeps being about making girls one of the boys, paying no heed to personal preferences.
I am a woman, and I am proud to be one.
Right on, Jenny C.
It kinda bugs me that women always seemed to get lumped together. It seems that it is so much more socially acceptable for men to be of varying personalities, from the muy macho rah-rah sports guys to the cereberal, soft-spoken types who never watch or play a sport, and of course a million variations in between.
And as women, why can’t we be the same way? Why is one of group of women making fun of sports that makes them maybe, (I’ve never heard the show) come off as the stereotypical “Sports are hard” types have any bearing on how society views the rest of us?
Ever listen to the Nerdist Podcast? Chris Hardwick jokes about being utterly clueless about sports all the time. Is he making all men look bad when he does that? Of course not.
It just always strikes me odd that in so many ways when the Media speaks of women they speak of us as if we are small, consistently similar subset of society instead of HALF THE POPULATION, deserving of all the personality differences and preferences of the other half.
Be a jock or be a girly-girl or be a combination of both. Just be you.
I just recently found your blog and I have to say I really enjoy it! I’m recovering from anorexia and exercise/fitness is still a difficult thing for me (because at this point I don’t want to jeopardize my recovery-6 months symptom free-and fall back into an unhealthy relationship with exercise).
As for the sports thing, I would take the “girl talk” idea with a grain of salt. I haven’t listened to it, but to me it sounds hilarious. I don’t think (and that could change upon listening to it) that they are trying to mock female sports commentators or insinuate that women as a whole are unable to comprehend or enjoy athletics for what they are, but probably are just having a good time and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Unless they are mocking or making fun of anyone in a really cruel, hurtful way, I’d say let them enjoy what they are doing. I’m not a big fan of sports (especially not football, I don’t understand it and I don’t care to) but I do love tennis because I grew up playing it and my boyfriend is an avid baseball fan. I watch baseball with him because I know it’s something he enjoys and I ask questions so I can appreciate the game more. I may not watch it on my own, but I like spending time with him doing the things he likes, and he does the same for me.
If these women want to enjoy poking fun at some things in sports, that’s their choice and not a reflection of women as a whole. I know plenty of women who love sports and that’s cool, I’m just not one of them.
I’ll watch UFC fights with my husband – he was pretty patient with me when I bugged him about the rules and judging and all the millions of questions that I had. I like to be interested in what he’s interested in. I’m sure my mindset would be different if he liked 80 million sports and we had to watch them all day long, but I’m down to learn 🙂
Yeah, several feminist blogs and articles out there (that I can’t remember the exact names of to quote) and I will all call B.S. on the “empowering” comment.
Deadlifting a new personal best? Sure, empowering. Demonstrating athleticism and flexibility as a gymnast in the Olympics? Empowering. Demonstrating athleticism and flexibility in an outfit designed to sell you as a sex object and not an athlete? And knowing that you are not there for people to admire your abilities, but your looks? Not empowering. It is not that I have a problem with them choosing to do it- if they like it and can use it to make a living, then fine. But call it what is is.
I also have an issue with the terrible at sports = in need of a girly website/commentary. I am not good with sports. I do not like sports. I don’t want to listen to that commentary though! And hey, guess what? I know a bunch of guys who don’t like sports. And guess what? They just don’t watch it. Or, if they have to watch it (because their S.O. does) then they actually try to learn at least a little bit about it.
Claiming that “you are the stereotype” and therefore the stereotype is Ok is not ok! Because the problem with stereotypes is that they aren’t specific to you. And by furthering them, you further all the negative aspects of the stereotype.
I used to be a girl who rolled her eyes and complained feminists all were sticks in the mud and so annoying. And then I started reading the articles about sexual assault victims, and I joined the professional work world. Like it or not ladies, we are still second class citizens. And that stereotype of silly women who can’t understand sports? Hurts me every time I say no to a golf trip or tell my (male) boss that I don’t like sports. Because it is sitting there in the back of his head suggesting subconsciously that I am not as smart or as competent as my male counterparts.
And sorry to post again, but there is a big difference between not being interested in sports and actively taking part in a stereotype about sports.
When ever people ask me why watching sports bores me, my response has always been: “I’m up for a workout anytime. But why would I find it interesting to watch other people get in their daily exercise?” That’s what spectating has always been to me- watching other people exercise while I sit on my butt. It never made sense to me.
I have to admit that I don’t care at all about sports and I have no desire to watch them. I do have favorite teams, but knowing if they win is enough, I don’t need to see it.
I would also say that in my group of friends the only women that care about sports are the ones that suddenly started to care when their boyfriends/husbands came along. That stereotype bothers me far more.
I don’t really like or follow traditional sports. However, sit me down in front of a game, and I can’t help but get into it as long as I know the basic rules (which I do). My husband and friends aren’t really sports nuts, but if they were, I probably would follow more. Anything live though is great… though I’m not really inclined to want to watch a game on TV.
Sports I have PARTICIPATED in are much more interesting – gymnastics, skating, diving, swimming, running, track, triathlon, volleyball, etc – I think it’s because I have more respect for how truly difficult it is and how GOOD these folks are.
I LOVE sports. I have never been much good at playing them, but I love watching football, basketball, and baseball (hockey and soccer less so). I watch more sports than my boyfriend and many of my male friends. However, I continually find that I’m expected to know less about sports because I’m a woman, and many women in my life–mostly in my boyfriend’s family, actually–often make comments about being unable to understand why anyone would like sports. I have had a man ask me if I picked my March Madness bracket “for the logos,” even when my bracket finished third out of a pool of over a hundred. I’m not bothered by women who don’t like sports, but, in my experience, most men AND women denigrate me for my interest in sports. Men expect me to know less, and women somehow think of me as less feminine or less interesting.
A bit off-topic but maybe not…my boss at the Y asked each of us employees to write a few sentences about someone who will be competing at the Summer Olympics in London. I wanted to pick a female, but I didn’t want someone from one of the “girly” sports. I picked female wrestler Stephany Lee, who turned out to be much more controversial than I anticipated; it will be interesting to see if they actually put my mini-report on the wall. Here’s an article about her: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/sports/olympics/wrestler-becomes-olympian-then-a-newlywed.html
Not necessarily a sports’ fanatic but can get fanatical over certain sports/events. Love, love, LOVE tennis and follow all the Opens. By the time the US and Australians are over–because the coverage is of day and night play–I am fried but pumped and looking forward to the next one. I’ll watch it online and schedule all my busywork around the matches: takes the boring out of filing school papers and keeps my restless side in place long enough to stay in place for the matches.
Then there’s football: started watching it to bond with my younger son and lost my mind along with the Packers (last year) and the Giants this year.
And do I get the games and what’s going on–oh yes I do. And knowing the mental part of the game is what fascinates me while I watch a stupid ball bounce back and forth or the pigskin fly down the field. Without that, it’s just a bunch of folks moving around chasing one or the other.
Finally, there’s Dancing with the Stars but…forget it, we won’t go there 😉
Female commentary: I’d LOVE to get paid to talk about a sport I love. (Then again, I wouldn’t mind getting paid to talk about pretty much anything. As I told hubby, if I got paid by the word, we’d be living a whole lot differently than we do, lol.
Woah back up a sec. Lingerie football? Wow that’s a new one for me (I am from the UK though). That’s the sort of thing that makes me sign inwardly and go “Really?”. I mean by all means if you want to run around in your knickers in front of a tv audience then go for it, but let’s not start calling it ’empowering’.
I like sports and I enjoy them. It depends on you, in my opinion.
I’m not sure how, but I managed to misread the headline as “Do Women Need Sports Bras to Be Pink-Washed to Enjoy Them?” and was wondering what kind of pink laundry detergent/dye you were giving away in this post.
As for sports… eh. There are plenty of guys that just don’t like sports either, or who sort of know and like football and basketball, and know most of the rules generally, but aren’t fanatical. There are great things about sports; they’re not for everyone though, and there’s nothing wrong with that. As long as you’re doing what you like because you like it – and not because you think you have to because you’re a woman – then do what floats your boat!
Personally, I love sports. Playing sports, watching sports, talking about sports. In fact, I probably know more men than women who have no interest in watching a game. Cheerleading, rugby, synchronized swimming, soccer, ballroom dancing… they are all sports. (And yes, it’s a bit ridiculous the amount of money that some athletes make, but that’s why I tend to lean towards college sports.)
However, I draw the line at playing football in lingerie. Not that I’m a prude or even modest, but why do women have to show skin to play professional football? Why isn’t there a WNFL where women can play the same game as men, but wear actual clothes?
I grew up watching stereotypically ‘male’ sports; football, rugby, cricket, F1, darts (totally counts as a sport) and, though I’m not particularly good at any of these sports (I have two left feet, am the opposite of ambidextrous when you put a bat in my hand and can’t drive) I understand them pretty well, and still really enjoy watching them. Yet, every time I join in with a sports conversation, or go to the pub to watch a game, it’s immediately assumed I don’t know anything about sports, and my opinion is disregarded unless I start acting like a tool and bringing out statistics. The amount of condescending ‘explanations’ I’ve had to endure surrounding sports – football (soccer) being the worst culprit – is unbelievable.
I don’t know what to think of the show – on one hand, I get that quite a lot of people are genuinely uninterested in sports, regardless of gender, and so it is quite amusing to hear the opinion of two women who just don’t care about sport talk about sport. However, I feel that people are very quick to tar everyone with the same brush – just because these two women don’t know/care about sports shouldn’t mean that every woman conforms to that stereotype. It would be like me filming myself saying “Astrophysics! How about that, huh?” and then everyone deciding no woman can understand astrophysics.