Don’t get mad at me, the scientists said it. (Plus, you know how I love a good pun!)
Eating animals has been one of the greatest existential problems of my life. Which either means I’ve had a pretty easy life or I’m prone to dramatics. Both? Seriously though, the decision whether or not to eat meat has caused me more agony than childbirth. Hahahaha no. Childbirth was like PTSD-level pain. But it’s definitely worse than watching all 27 (ish) seasons of Friends and being disappointed that Ross and Rachel ended up together. Or even that time I chopped jalapenos and then took my contacts out with my fingers.
Part of the problem is that it never quite seems resolved to me. I was a vegetarian for years, a vegan for a couple of years and then after getting pregnant and completely flunking out of veggie school (I made out with a Big Mac in my car), I gave it up for good. I was happy being vegetarian but I began having health problems (you can read all the gory details here if you like) and this see-sawing was a major cause of my orthorexia. I just decided that if any research said a food was bad then I wouldn’t eat it. Turns out there’s a lot of research. Which is how I ended up with five safe foods and not being able to eat anything else! When I started intuitive eating, I realized that body intuitively wanted to eat dead animal carcasses. There’s no pretty way to put it but there it is.
One of the nice things about vegetarianism is that it can be very clear-cut. You eat meat or you don’t. Sure you have your pescatarians and fruitatarians and lacto-ovo and other people who like who like confusing waiters. (Veganism, and what constitutes “true” veganism, get dicier.) But really it’s pretty simple. Not easy — but simple. But once you throw everything back on the table — literally if you’re dining with my kids — it gets a lot more confusing. For awhile red meat was the devil’s own muscle tissue and boneless, skinless chicken breasts reigned. Now chicken breasts with their preponderance of omega-6’s are out and grass-fed beef with its omegao-3’s are in. Fish is always good for you (as long as you watch that mercury! Filling out your health bingo card yet?), but expensive. Horse is definitely always on the ‘no’ list. And I never was sure about pork. (Why don’t we farm sheep for meat in America? Always wondered that.)
And so for the past 4 (ish) years I’ve made an uneasy truce with myself, eating meat when I feel like it and trying to buy the best kind we can afford. In the past year or so I’ve gravitated towards eating a higher-fat diet (probably 60% of my calories come from fat now?) and that naturally has lessened my meat intake a bit. On a normal day I don’t eat animal for breakfast or lunch and will have a serving at dinner. And while I feel good about the fats — fats aren’t evil anymore, remember? — I’m still not sure if that’s the “best” diet.
All of which is to say that when I came across this new Austrian study, I had a lot of baggage going into it. The study, published in PLoS One, followed 1,320 people divided into four categories based on their reported dietary preference: Vegetarians, carnivores that eat a lot of produce, carnivores that eat “less meat” and carnivores whose diet is rich in meat. They examined all the people based on their physical health, mental health and how often they sought health care.
Now, if you were to guess based on conventional wisdom which group would come out ahead, you’d likely pick the veg-heads. But the research tide has been changing with diets like paleo/primal, Atkins, Dukan and other high-protein, low-carb fare putting up some impressive health scores. (And if we’re going for sanctimony I’d say vegans and the paleo crowd are neck and neck.) Clearly the field was ripe for a showdown.
The researchers found that the vegetarians had a lower BMI* and drank less alcohol but other than that, fared worse on every measure of health. Not only did the vegetarians have more cancer, heart disease and allergies than the omnivores but they also had substantially more mental health issues. The vegetarians even rated their general quality of life as much lower. Oops.
(click pic to enlarge)
The researchers concluded, “Our study has shown that Austrian adults who consume a vegetarian diet are less healthy (in terms of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), have a lower quality of life, and also require more medical treatment.” Well then.
So does this mean the paleo folks were right all along? Maybe. I have to admit that just from my personal experience this rings true. I was less healthy as a vegetarian. Not at first – for years I was okay but looking back I chalk that up to youth since my usual “meal” was popcorn and Sweetarts candy. (But it was fat free! I thought I was being so “good”! Yikes.) But as soon as I got pregnant and had to support a growing baby, I wanted all meat all the time. And the media has taken this study and run with it, an orgy of “I told you so!”s.
But while I love a good confirmation bias like the rest of them, there are some obvious problems with this study.
1. Vegetarians may worry more about health in general which is why they’re veg in the first place. For most of us, being vegetarian isn’t the diet we were born into and so it takes a conscious reason to change to eating that way. And for a lot of people it’s because they’re having some kind of health issue that other medicine can’t help (or they don’t want it to). There is no way to tell if they went veg because of poor health or if the vegetarianism caused the health issues. (Although clearly the vegetarian diet isn’t helping the people with their health problems.)
2. The study didn’t differentiate between types of vegetarians. True story: I once went to a party with a vegetarian friend and I handed her a plate of salad. “What’s this?” she asked, genuinely curious about the green stuff on her plate. “It’s spinach,” I answered, agog. Now I’m not judging her for not liking spinach but it did seem pretty ironic that a vegetarian couldn’t recognize one of the most common vegetables. Turns out her brand of vegetarianism was pasta with red sauce, pizza with tomato sauce and cheese sandwiches with ketchup. I’m just saying that they differentiated between meat eaters who ate a lot of produce and those who don’t (which those results are kind of surprising too, right??) so I think they should have done the same with vegetarians. You can’t assume vegetarians are eating all veggies all the time.
3. Self reported data. Gah! It’s the bane of research! People are lying liars who lie, especially when it comes to our health so it’s hard for me to believe they were all entirely honest.
4. It’s in Austria. Clearly vampires don’t do well as vegetarians. Duh. (So sorry Austria, I had to go there! Joke was too good!) No, actually, my point is that it’s a relatively small sample of people in a fairly homogeneous country so it may not be representative of humans at large.
In the end, this study does make me feel a little better about being an omnivore now — if only because it proves I’m not the only one who felt like a failure at vegetarianism. And it doesn’t change the way I eat. And yet there’s still a small part of me that wishes I could make being a vegetarian work again. Either way I think there definitely needs to be more research. MAHR RSRCH NOWWWW!!! (Because Zombies aren’t good vegetarians either. Duh.)
What’s your take on this study? Any other failed vegetarians like me out there?? Anyone else gravitating towards a really high-fat diet (seriously I’m keeping the coconut business in the black!)?
*Remember lower BMIs are only correlated with health to a point. If you recall, the people with the best life expectancy turned out to be those in the “overweight” category. That is, if BMI means anything to you. It’s really a senseless measure.
PS In case you missed the memo I did a major site overhaul over the weekend and since I did it myself there might be a lot of um… issues. Please tell me if something’s not working or you can’t find something or if you just hate it. (You can tell me if you love it too!) Thanks for your patience
Ahhh . . . I miss the old site. But I love your new tagline. 🙂 Thank you for the omnivore validation! I’ve never really tried to be vegan, but even when I just reduce my animal-based proteins too much I don’t feel as well.
And I adore this line: “And if we’re going for sanctimony I’d say vegans and the paleo crowd are neck and neck.”
Well, I had to revert back to the old site thanks to issues with the code so… yay?
“Or even that time I chopped jalapenos and then took my contacts out with my fingers.”
THAT should have been on an episode of “FRIENDS”.
Austria is not so much geographically famous for VAMPIRES…but vampires were discussed in German literature as a result of Serbia coming under Austrian rule in the early 1700’s, but they were equally discussed in French literature at the time.
Since your post is about diets, did you know that vampire bats were so named because of eastern European vampire tales? Vampire bats are a South American thing, so this New World bat with a vampire diet was named after the Old World creature with a similar diet.
Lenore was a Gothic ballad poem written by a German named Gottfried August Burger, published in 1774 and although the character comes back from the grave it is not considered a vampire.
Oh! And there was THE BRIDE OF CORINTH by Goethe. That was a vampire.
Of course NOSFERATU…German film based on DRACULA who was a Transylvanian vampire, whose story was told by an English author.
Another famous vampire tale was THE VAMPYRE by John Polidori. Also an Englishman.
But yes Eastern European Bulgarian, Macedonian, Czech , Polish, Bosnian, Croation, Russia, and Hebrews, Mesopotamians, Romans Greeks.
Many cultures.
They are seemingly everywhere.
Just like mosquitoes.
As to vegetarianism, to me its like the old joke…
VEGETARIAN is an old Indian word for lousy hunter.
I like meat.
Really love this whole post, seriously. But for Monday morning giggles, the vegan/paleo quote and Darwin’s ‘lousy hunter’ quip have really started my day off right! Thanks to both of you. 🙂
I’m going primal (from Wisconsin, therefore you’re going to have to pry the cheese out of my cold dead hands paleo-nazis), because I think it’s the gentlest approach to all-on healthy. But, gotta put a plug in for George (http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/) who has the very best attitude of ANY paleo proponent out there. Never negative and has overcome some tough stuff. And awesome recipes. Also, Mark Sisson is the original good guy, nice guy proponent of primal.
You are very welcome Lynn! Helping to start your day off right made my day!
I’m curious about the self-reported part and the seeking medical treatment part-did they do anything to account for people who don’t seek medical treatment even when they should? Just thinking that with some people, not seeking as much medical treatment is more a sign of stubbornness than of good health.
Good point about people seeking medical treatment! And it would be interesting to know if it was preventative or … whatever the opposite of preventative is. (Seriously, cannot think of the word I want!)
Causation. Catalyst, instigator, agent, originator, prime mover, source, root, motivation, stimulus, stimuli, genesis, ignition, ignite, determinant, inducement, foundation, antecedent.
That was kind of where my thinking was headed. I think if a person is making a conscious choice about their diet, they are probably also more attuned to their general health. They are probably more likely to go to the doctor and be diagnosed with something where someone willy-nilly about their diet is more likely to just deal with it or attribute it to their lifestyle. Or perhaps avoid the doctor in fear of hearing that they have to *gasp* watch what they eat and move around a bit more.
I was vegetarian for almost 20 years before being diagnosed with breast cancer. While in treatment, I started daydreaming about eating MEAT! Bacon! Meatballs, chicken soup, sausage. So I started eating it again. I love it. I don’t think I should stop, though now my husband needs to go low salt and low fat, and honestly, I would like to support him, but, well… Sausage! I love it. And while I had estrogen/progesterone dependent cancer, and I understand that cholesterol creates estrogen, I need to find a workable balance and eat the best food available without going overboard in any direction. I do tend to think vegetarians depend on processed foods too much, convenience wins out over soaking beans and cooking, as the diet sort of demands.
I did not know that cholesterol creates estrogen – I’ll have to read up more on that! I do know in the literature there’s an increased risk of breast cancer tied to red meat consumption BUT I always figured that was because they were using processed and/or conventionally farmed meats as well…
P.S. I hope your breast cancer is long in the past now and you are doing better!
Cholesterol converts to estrogen, yes. But not DIETARY cholesterol. The cholesterol our own body produces (remember, we are animals too).
Hubby and I were vegetarian more than 20 years ago. Lasted about three years, then we went hardcore vegan for 3 full months, which left us weighing less but otherwise feeling weak and awful, which led us nose first into a burger joint, and we never again thought about giving up meat. Nowadays I’m all about grass-fed beef and home-grown eggs. (I got chickens a few weeks ago; tasty eggs and they sure are fun to watch!)
Love the fat.
love the meat.
I LOVE ME MANY VEGETARIANS.
I never be eating as they do…
ahh well 🙂
I don’t consider myself to be a failed vegetarian, but I was one for about 8 years before deciding to give it up. Why? Well I went vegetarian for a few reasons, non of which included a concern for health (diet and health related concerns would come later for me). The first was out of concern for the environment; we’ve all read how eating veg is better for the planet. The second reason was because I did not want to support factory farming of animals, I’m sure the reasons are obvious.
For about the first 6 years I had no interest in meat whatsoever, but then somewhere in the last few years I started craving it. Rather than reexamine my reasons for going veg and making a decision to stick with it or not, I started doing stupid **** like drinking too much while I was out with my girlfriends and “oops” ordering a cheeseburger. Then I felt like it didn’t count because I was tipsy when I’d done it. So stupid. After a while of doing that, I realized I needed to reconsider my choices. First I reexamined the environmental impact of eating meat vs veg. I was always a vegetarian that ate lots of fake meat products (and I was not willing to give those if I were going to choose to remain vegetarian) and researching the impact of that vs buying ethically raised, local meat revealed meat was actually the better option. As for the animal cruelty aspect, simply choosing not to buy factory farmed meat solved that problem. I only eat meat that comes from within a few hundred miles of here (although most of it comes from a farm 50 miles from where I live) and it all is pastured, natural fed, etc.
I do have mental health issues (anxiety, depression, ED) and find that a diet with meat in it makes a difference, red meat in particular helps. I don’t eat more than one serving of meat a day, sometimes not even that much, but I don’t feel an ounce of guilt when I do. I’m past the point in my life where I feel like I need to label the way I eat, and I am past the point of caring what anyone else thinks about it. Everyone has to do what’s best for them and as long as people are making conscious, educated decisions about their choices, who am I to say anything about it?
Oh, and as for the fat content of my diet, yes, it’s high. I’d say my diet is probably 90% plant based. I stay away from dairy for the most part, so I eat tons of whole grains (no wheat), fruit, veggies and nuts/seeds. But I must eat almond or walnut butter, coconut and avocado at least several times each day.
You and I sound like we’ve had much the same journey! Your alcohol-induced meat eating made me laugh a little bit. Also, thank you for the reminder about ditching the guilt! For some reason I’ve gotten pretty good at not feeling guilty about eating treats when I want them but somehow I’ve forgotten to extend that to the rest of my food? Ah, work in progress…
I was a vegetarian until I got pregnant the first time too! Like you I wasn’t exactly a healthy one…cheese whiz anyone. These days I’m all about doing my best to make the majority of my food nutrient dense and go easy on grains. I’m just not into eliminating entire food groups all together.
Hahah – you and I are so much alike! BTW, you scared the crap out of me with your pregnancy post! I was like squeeee she had her bean! And then I was sorely disappointed;) It was awesome reading your story though – I love that you are so honest about your PPD! I wish more women talked about it…
I was vegetarian for 2 years when I was in college and I ended my veg streak while on study abroad in Vienna by eating a very tasty käsewurst. I was not the best vegetarian in that I consumed a lot of carbs and didn’t do a good job of getting proteins in there. I was also vegetarian because I also had Eating issues and I thought it would make me thinner. So someone like me, in that study, would definitely skew things.
*as an aside, having lived in Austria, I am not sure how vampires come into play. The vampey stuff was all further east.
I never knew how many types of sausage there could be until I visited Germany! Very tasty. And oops on the vampire thing – I thought it was Austria! I’m clearly not up on my supernatural lore. Sorry!
I was vegetarian for 2 years when I was in college and I ended my veg streak while on study abroad in Vienna by eating a very tasty käsewurst. I was not the best vegetarian in that I consumed a lot of carbs and didn’t do a good job of getting proteins in there. I was also vegetarian because I also had eating issues and I thought it would make me thinner. So someone like me, in that study, would definitely throw things off.
*as an aside, having lived in Austria, I am not sure how vampires come into play. The vampey stuff was all further east I thought.
Don’t know how I ended up with 2 comments.
I miss the old site too…this site loads REALLY slowly, and given that you have to click through to every article, I almost lost patience and gave up on reading!
But on to other things….interesting article. I can’t remember enough from my statistics courses, but looking at all that data, how much of it is statistically significant? I’m only asking because as you go down, different diets do better or worse in different categories. And I’m wondering if they can really get good data when they’re trying to break things down into a million sub categories? This is where my knowledge of statistics might fail me, but wouldn’t it be more accurate if they didn’t try to apply the study to a million different things?
You’re definitely right about there being a lot of research out there. I gave up and worrying about it too much a while ago. Which is worse- fretting over whether eggs are good or bad for you? Or eating the darn eggs? If it is unprocessed and a plant or animal, I don’t worry about it too much. I just focus on making sure I eat a lot of veggies.
You are so right – I just tested the load speed and it’s RIDICULOUSLY slow. (Like 45 seconds yipes) Don’t know how I didn’t catch that before 🙁 I’ve reverted back to the old site until I can get that figured out! And thanks for the note about showing the latest post in entirety on the home page – I’ll fix that! Thank you so much for hanging in there with me!
And good questions about the studies! I too found all their categories confusing
Yes, good point! Statistical significance really matters in looking at studies like this! You can tell whether or not the differences are statistically significant by looking at the chi-square p-values, which are in the farthest right column of the figure. If that number is above .05 (or maybe .10 if you want to be more lenient), then that result is not statistically significant. In other words, if that number is too high, it means the differences in percentages that we are seeing between the groups on that particular health measure are not likely “real,” but rather are a result of the sort of random variance that you get by virtue of talking to a group of 1300 people rather than the entire population.
When interpreting this data, it’s also important to note that the researchers controlled for age, sex, and socioeconomic status.
And I particularly like your caveat #1, Charlotte–the relationship between diet and these health measures can certainly be spurious!
Hmmm. So really, most of the indicators in that table Charlotte included aren’t statistically significant? See- this is the problem with taking scientific research at face value (and drastically changing eating habits because of it!). I’m not trying to imply Charlotte is taking the research at face value- in fact, this article is all about the struggle to incorporate new research without jumping overboard with it- but I think the media in general taking research at face value without fully understanding it is why we go from one extreme to the other on food. Eggs are the devil! No- eggs are wonderful! All whole grains! No whole grains!
Also Charlotte- the site is still loading really slowly. I don’t think it was the new site- it must be something behind the scenes. So you could probably switch back to the new site without too much of a change from that perspective. Did you change servers?
I think we’re all looking for THE ANSWER, and there just isn’t one. Or, I should say, there isn’t just one. Some folks thrive on veganism, others go Paleo & never go back, and most of us fall somewhere in between.
A few years ago I took a yoga teacher training workshop, and the teacher talked about Ahimsa, or non-violence. The subject of food came up, and she put it perfectly, I think: If you feel you’re causing violence to animals, be vegetarian or vegan. But if you feel you’re causing violence to yourself and your health, then eat meat and animal products.
There is so much judgement and guilt around food. Food is the new sex: What we eat or don’t eat is now the barometer for our morality. Except we all have different barometers, and we can’t judge others based on our own. Nor should we. I wish both sides, instead of yelling at each other (and the rest of us), would put all that time and attention onto making healthy, whole food available to everyone. They could do a lot of good, I think.
“Food is the new sex: What we eat or don’t eat is now the barometer for our morality.” SO TRUE. And very well put.
Vegan here. Sanctimonious?
I frequently crave desserts and Jemaine Clement. Not every craving is a revelation.
It was supposed to be funny – please accept my apologies:) Also, I had to google Jemaine Clement – from your comment I thought it was going to be a type of liquor or something but when I saw it was a he, I totally burst out laughing! Good craving to have;)
No apology necessary, just wanted y’all to know you’ve got at least one vegan reader. I’m generally only sanctimonious about song lyrics.
I come from a region in Ky where we eat sheep: mutton to be exact, hickory smoked mutton….
And according to wiki, the US is the top sheep producer in the world.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_farming
Love the new look and feel of the website.
Okay that sounds amazing! And I had no idea we were the top producer of sheep… so why don’t we eat it more? I saw lamb in the grocery store the other day for $30 a pound! Sheesh.
Hmmm. As a lifelong pescatarian I’m not really sure how I feel about this. I haven’t had a chance to read the article itself (especially the stats work) but I will say, as someone who just had a PLoS One paper published a couple weeks ago, that PLoS One can often be a catching ground for research that gets rejected from journals with higher standards. Not always of course though.
In any case, I totally agree with your assessment that there definitely needs to be a distinction between vegetarians who eat lots of fruit and veggies and those who don’t because I’ve been both of those and I can definitely tell you when I was healthier. In addition, I’d like to see some research about lifelong non-meat eaters. If you deprive your body of something it’s used to eating I have to imagine that has at least some short-term consequences. That said, depression/anxiety/EDs all run in my family. If someone could guarantee to me I’d be cured forever by eating meat I would do it. But it’s not enough for me to try for just a possibility when, at this point in my life, meat doesn’t look or smell like food to me. It doesn’t gross me out, it just doesn’t even seem edible.
And, I know we’re talking health here, but my previously carnivorous husband joined me in pescatarianism after learning in his environmental economics grad school program that even the most sustainably-farmed meat is worse in terms of environmental impact than the least sustainably-harvested fish. (In case you’re wondering, Monterey Bay Aquarium has a great app for telling which fish is good to eat, environmentally.) But I don’t judge people at all for eating meat. Everyone needs to do what works for them. Of course I hope people do what they can to eat more sustainable meat but I’m a huge supporter of listening to your own body and giving it what it needs.
Comment for Abby: Haven’t looked at the study yet and I doubt there are any one size cures all diets out there. However, a pescetarian diet is quite different than an actual vegetarian diet when it comes to its impact on mental health, especially if you have seafood on a regular basis. In fact, fish oil could positively affect mental health (think there are plenty of articles out there on this).
Comment for all: I only have my own anecdotal evidence but it’s compelling enough for me to stick to eating ethically sourced, happy animal protein, even if it’s sometimes in limited quantities. My mother is bipolar and Buddhist. She tries to eat fairly vegetarian, although she likes the taste of meat. When she manages to stay vegetarian for awhile, her mental health is noticeably worse, and sometimes prolonged vegetarianism precipitates a real bipolar episode which results in hospitalization. Always difficult to know causation in this case (ex, was she already sick and that’s what caused her to forgo the meat, or was the lack of meat making her sick)? I’ve tried to get her to take fish oil, at the very least, but sometimes that’s an uphill battle too. Eating meat/fish wouldn’t cure her, I know that, but from what I’ve seen, I believe it could help.
First – you are so right about fish, especially fatty fish, being linked to better mental health in the literature! Second – so interesting about your mom! I’ve read a lot of similar anecdotal stories where going paleo/primal really helped someone’s mental illness. Didn’t ever quite work that way for me but I can totally accept that it would help others that way!
Well, if I’m any indication, eating meat didn’t cure me of my mental issues;) So many things factor into that. Very interesting about their being a difference between people raised that way and people who come into the diet later in life.
My name is Hay, and I am a failed vegan.
Basically, all that veganism did for me was ruin my teeth. Seriously. I have a mouth FULL of silver fillings- almost all of them from the 2 year period in my life when I was a vegan. My dental health dramatically improved once I stopped.
What really makes me angry is when other vegans accuse me of not doing veganism “right.” Like, if only I had included XYZ into my diet, I would have been healthy.
That’s just the thing about veganism, it takes so much effort just to do it “right.” Now that I eat dairy, eggs, and a little bit of meat every day, eating healthfully, and feeling healthy, come effortlessly to me. I never worry, I don’t scrutinize. I just eat.
BTW, sheep and goats are often preferred when grazing land is marginal. If you, say, have thousands upon thousands of acres of prime grasslands (like the US), cows are the #1 choice of livestock. They produce more milk and meat, but require too much space and feed for many areas of the world.
Some people raise cows and goats together because goats will eat all of the weeds and brush that cows tend to ignore.
I love this: “Now that I eat dairy, eggs, and a little bit of meat every day, eating healthfully, and feeling healthy, come effortlessly to me. I never worry, I don’t scrutinize. I just eat.” Totally made me smile:) And thanks for explaining the sheep/goats/cows thing! Super interesting.
I’ve been a vegetarian for 15 years. When I met my husband, he was vegan, and I was an omnivore. He was also a vegan who subscribed to that “no oil” philosophy made popular by McDougall (and now several other vegan diet gurus) while competing nationally in Sports Acrobatics. His diet choices weren’t doing him any favors. While I was an omnivore at the time, I was one who from childhood had always preferred plant foods, and had been raised by a mom who was both an excellent cook and rarely swayed by the swinging pendulum of diet advice; we ate the yolk! Even back in the 80s and 90s when that was not the thing to do! And my mom always held that the yolk was the healthiest part. She was ahead of her time.
Anyway, my husband and I met in college, with our very different dietary practices. After examining the impact of factory animal farming on the environment, I decided to stop eating meat. And after some convincing that his high-starch, very low fat diet wasn’t adequately supporting his nutritional needs, he decided to eat what I cooked him, which included eggs and dairy on occasion, and plenty of fat. So, we met in the middle.
We’ve raised our three girls as vegetarians, as well. Our diet consists of lots of produce, whole grains, lots of legumes, whole milk dairy in varying amounts, and eggs from our backyard hens. Lately, after reading so much research about how good fish is for the body, I (and I alone, because my husband and daughters have no inclination to do so) have been incorporating very infrequent servings of fish, but only when it meets my selection criteria (kosher, low mercury, sustainably harvested). My reasons for choosing vegetarianism were always related to environmental impact, and after doing tons of reading (Omnivore’s Dilemma, Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, among others), and with the greater availability of sustainably produced meat, my thinking about meat consumption has changed. However, my tastes haven’t. Like one of the previous commenters noted, meat doesn’t even really seem like food to me. A white bean soup with garlicky braised greens will just always sound more palatable to me than a steak.
I agree that there are many vegetarians who subsist on pasta and bagels. I was never one of them. I hate it when I go out to eat and the only vegetarian option is a pasta dish. Don’t get me wrong; I like pasta, but I eat it rarely. I am a vegetarian who eats mostly vegetables. My health stats seem to support my diet, too. With a huge family history of diabetes and heart disease, my cholesterol numbers look great, my triglycerides are super low, and blood sugar is in check.
So there, Austrian study! 😉
Thanks for the study. Yes, makes me feel more validated as an omnivore as well! Like you, I tried vegetarianism, but since I found out I have multiple food allergies- especially to non-meat protein sources- I eat meat now. With the guidance of a naturopath, I also use my diet to help manage some chronic health issues. So, I agree with you that people who make decisions about their diets (like vegetarians) probably do so for a reason, but I also wanted to point out that just because they are still less-healthy doesn’t mean the dietary change isn’t working. If it’s a chronic health problem, there may be no cure even if the diet is a helpful treatment.
Also totally agree that the researchers should differentiate between vegetarians who eat veggies and those who don’t. I had a friend who was a candy-bar and dairy products kind of vegetarian. yikes!
I haven’t even read this entire post but just had to say: Ross and Rachel – I feel you. Really really really wanted Rachel to run far far far away (to Paris, right?) because Ross was SO ANNOYING and they simply DID NOT belong together. But whatever. OK, going back to read the rest.
Not much to say on the vegetarian front (aside from saying that I’ve never been remotely tempted to be one), but I saw this article about “the next BMI” a few days ago: https://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/next-bmi-number-know-better-health-213400294.html. I have always hated BMI measurements with a passion, since mine turns out to be 32.6, which, never mind overweight, puts me squarely in obese; I always feel like I’d need to be moved from room to room with a wheelbarrow after looking at it. Though I know that it’s because I am muscular and have very dense bones (a childhood spent literally jumping off of trees will do that), it still so depresses/warps me so I sometimes feel large and see myself as large in photos. But I plugged my data into the new calculator, and came out with a very different number. Here, 1 =average risk of death for your age, more than 1 is more risk, less is less risk. My ABSI is 0.063. Yes! Makes me feel so much healthier. 🙂 Even to the point of seeing myself as thinner the last time I looked at a photo of myself. It helped straighten that mirror out a bit for me. Anyway, I thought it might be up your alley… calculations, data, studies, etc. Fun!
I love me an online calculator! Thanks for the link!
This kind of goes outside of the lines of vegetarianism, but over the years I’ve noticed that those who are on the strictest diets tend to have the hardest time staying healthy, fit or making any sort of changes to their body from building muscle and strength to weight loss. The more strict the diet, the less room they have to make changes and the harder those changes are to make. In addition, these sorts of diets often bring more stress to the person on both physical and emotional levels.
It’ s why I’ve come to the belief that any diet than causes stress is not as healthy as possible. A healthy diet removes stress rather than create it.
First of all I am a vegetarian- so there is that. And I say what Matt up above me here says- super restrictive diets of any sort are a problem for many people.
And I want to go have dinner at Sabrina’s house, too!!
Personally I dropped meat because I don’t like it all that much. It was EASY for me to stop eating it. I am not a person who relies on processed food either- I prep my food for the week on sunday, which includes veggies, grains, tempeh, beans and fruits and during the summer I grill- like everything that I can get my hands on.
I am not worried about this revelation at all- because that study is far to small to really give any accurate results. And sad to say, that no matter what you eat, some day, your life will end. So let’s all help each other eat in a moderate way- eat what you like, just not a ton of it. and then go get a little activity and you’ll be good to go! Moderation and eating mindfully/intuitively to me is more the key to health than what you exactly eat.
I’ve been doing the intuitive eating thing, and for a while I thought I wasn’t “really” doing intuitive eating because I was still a vegetarian. The i realized that I do not want meat, and have not wanted meat in the nearly 11 years I have been a vegetarian. So, I am an intuitive vegetarian? I was a vegan for many years, and I quit not because I didn’t feel good but because it is soooo freaking expensive! Well, it is if you don’t have the time/will power to make every freaking thing you eat from scratch. Which I so don’t.
I think the big problem with a study like this is that one of the diets studied is usually used for different reasons than all the others. What I mean is: most people go paleo/atkins/other low-carb diet for their health. They look into what is healthy by that diet’s standards, and I think most of these diets are, basically, good for you. Vegetarians, on the other hand, have loads of people in their court like my friend, who decided to go veggie to save the planet as a teenager, ate nothing but peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and popcicles, and got anemia.
Also . . . I’m just gonna “go there”, about the mental health thing. Veganism draws a weird crowd. A hippy crowd. A pot-head crowd. So, yeah, mental health issues, I can see it, but I don’t blame the diet.
I was about to comment and go all nerdy statistician on you and scream correlation is not causation, but then I figured I should read the actual article. So I did. And lo, the authors say the same thing in a very upfront manner, though at the end of the article.
Of course, that bit gets left out in the big media articles. Grrr.
I told you I would read it and I did.. and with my love of the geeky, nerdy, scientific studies in me I have to agree with your analysis of the study, for the most part. I want to read the whole thing, actually. It is quite a homogenous group, and if the study was divided into four even groups (maybe? I don’t know), then only 330 of those 1320 were vegetarians.
330 people in all of Austria who were vegetarian have poorer health than 990 omnivores. The correlation between vegetarian and disease is something else that bothers me – like you pointed out, did they have asthma or allergies or cancer or mental illnesses before becoming a vegetarian? Without knowing that, I don’t think I like this study.
That being said, even with the biases, I’m pretty confident it’s on to something. There are a few gaps that are rather large. I’d like to see the study replicated with a larger sample size that is less homogenous — I’d be interested in the facts, especially in North America where obesity is a large issue across a majority of individuals – would the vegetarians come out healthier?
(Austria is a rather skinny country).
Regardless, I enjoyed this post and one day when I’m not drowning in leagues of homework I shall delve into the study.
Could I just point out that only four of the things they measured are statistically significant (allergies, urinary incontinence, cancer and mental illness). All the rest might have a slight difference in numbers, but have to be dismissed (in this study) because they’re just not significant enough.
Also as always, correlation is not causation.
I agree with you about seperating the vegetarians in to different groups as well. I also want to know how even the groups were in numbers, age, sex etc etc.
I wonder if cochrane has a meta-analysis on the topic. Individual studies are intersting, but a meta review is sometimes needed to get the full picture. I do love science 🙂
I really wish the media was more science literate. The number of times the media reports the exact opposite of what the study says is baffling.
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I like what you guys are up too. This type of clever work and exposure!
Keep up the verey good works guys I’ve incorporated you
guys to blogroll.